What is reality, what is illusion?

Experiences, questions and discussions on various aspects of mysticism, psychic abilities and psionics.

Re: What is reality, what is illusion?

Postby GenerousGeorge » Mon Apr 05, 2010 5:31 pm

Take deep breath......count to 10 or more =0/ Try to see Dermot's and my point of view about religion. Ryan cavalierly dismisses our comments on the subject as much less important than the potential harm to people done by comments like the judges on the 11 year old singer.

We seem to have a disconnect here on the relative seriousness of the issues that you regard as surprising coming from us. =0/

Maybe, if we could resolve that we would have more luck going forward. =0/
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Re: What is reality, what is illusion?

Postby Sabina » Mon Apr 05, 2010 5:33 pm

George... we did and do see your point about religion and have shown that on countless occasions, BUT all those occasions now magically just don't matter anymore.... they have been forgotten.... everything has been forgotten...
Everything!
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Re: What is reality, what is illusion?

Postby Ryan » Mon Apr 05, 2010 5:59 pm

I didn't dismiss anything... I simply stated that the "live and let live" approach can be applied to all things... I didn't, before now, have that approach on any subject... I never said one was more important than the other. My approach was not to dismiss any of them regardless how large or how small... but I definitely see the benefit in that approach.. and logics has it that if it is good for one situation why not another?
[R] If you don't understand something I said or why I said it... ask me.
If you don't want to understand something I said or why I said it... tell me.
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Re: What is reality, what is illusion?

Postby mirjana » Mon Apr 05, 2010 6:44 pm

Come on, what is going on here? In order to follow all that what is written in this and another topic, "How much is your soul worth?” one has to be a bit more concentrated.
I have just a few questions for all participants and those questions matters not because of Deep Spirits, but because of personal values and integrity:
What does "Connecting" mean to you?
I cannot believe that anybody serious couldn't recognize Ryan's sarcasm knowing his approach to religion.
George, Dermot, it is not that any theme is more or less important. Everything starts as less important and then it becomes a huge thing. Christianity started differently as it became afterwards. Show business started in one way and then with time it turned to something dramatically different. This dramatically changes are all around us. Of course that we can close our eyes protected with our comfortability and then realizing a problem when it becomes so huge that realizing it means nothing, because to change anything at that level is almost impossible. Therefore noticing things in time and trying to change them before they take a damaging course is very important.
In that movie American Life one of women who approached Mr. Hamaza said that for her is more important to have her home protected. People generally do not realize that they protect the best their homes by protecting other people homes. Otherwise, everything comes there from where it started. It is one of the cosmic laws. And isn't it then the most natural thing to pay attention to things that, although seeming naive, belong to highly manipulative and therefore dangerous. Or at least it should be like that in such forums and between people who considers themselves as deep spirits.
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Re: What is reality, what is illusion?

Postby dermot » Mon Apr 05, 2010 7:03 pm

Mirjana,
are you saying im shallow?
are you saying im not as committed as you are in taking a stand on something that is wrong?
do you think i dont know what it is to connect?

Again i ask those involved to look within rather than without.

By the way Ryans effort at sarcasm went completely over my head, i did think he might have been enamoured by the architecture.

He didnt clear that up.
Am i now to be accept responsibility for that too?
....the heart only whispers, be still and listen....
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Re: What is reality, what is illusion?

Postby mirjana » Mon Apr 05, 2010 7:25 pm

Dermot,
Of course it was not about being shallow, and somehow I believe that you know that. If I meant to say that I would say it just like that.
I said what I wanted to say which was a try to follow this talk connected to so many others we, at least some of us, have already had and through that know a bit more about each other. That was related to my use of the word "connected".
As about this talk and the other one in the topic "How much is your soul worth?", all examples that Ryan has given were given to point the fact that having some positive aspects within something which is more negative doesn't make it better. Because of that he mentioned Hitler (which, I sorry to say that George didn't get. That is why Ryan also mentioned churches and Christianity. And although you both know very well his stand point about religion, this one has also been put into the completely wrong understanding. I am really confused how something like that is possible, like talking two different languages.
If I stand against religion because of manipulation and all other reasons(we all know all of them as much time is spent on that), then it is quite illogical to ignore other things which also manipulate youth and make possible(step by step) coming to the point when realization that it is not good would be too late. Not reacting gives power to the certain things because silent is considered as confirmation.
Ryan's last attempt by mentioning his present living in the country which is out of any war seems again not to be understood. It is like that because people of that country (probably based on their history and experience learned from that) decided not to let such things to happen. If people do not react and let things to pass by them, they can only grow. And that is the whole point of this topic and all attempts to make it clear. To pull attention to anything else is inappropriate to my opinion.
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Re: What is reality, what is illusion?

Postby GenerousGeorge » Mon Apr 05, 2010 8:17 pm

ARGHHHHHHHH!!

Look gang...this really is not that complicated. I don't view the show business industry as represented by "American Idol" as something so dangerous to society that I want to try to go to any length to change it.

Particularly I don't view that judges comment as so onerous I need to get angry with the judge and anyone else who does not want to jump on that band wagon to protest. Obviously it is a much more serious and touchy issue for you.

I don't think it is appropriate to compare Simon with Hitler for any reason. I also don't think it is appropriate to compare the entertainment represented by gladiators with the entertainment industry in general today. These things seem self evident to me and I am surprised to hear those analogies being defended as appropriate.

You guys just keep on keeping on with risque pictures of Madonna etc....... I assume you are contending that was the kind of costume the judge was recommending for the 11 year old to wear. I have to say you lose credibility when you do that, yet I have seen no reply that recognizes that...... in fact you insist they are appropriate.

In my opinion the challenge of dogmatic religion is 1,000 times more dangerous than perceived inappropriate advice to an 11 year old about what are the right clothes to wear to win the contest. Mirjana, if show business does indeed grow to the threat level of religion, I will hop on board, however that is certainly not the case now and I am not going to empty my firehose on that grass fire.

How in the world did this topic get so convoluted and emotionally divisive? 80S =0o 80S =0o

In my opinion, if we are going to dig deep into things, we all better get thicker skins and be more tolerant of others opinions about our pet peeves. We need to be ab le to say without rancor, let's agree to disagree and move on. I for one, am certainly ready. 80S
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Re: What is reality, what is illusion?

Postby Sabina » Mon Apr 05, 2010 8:29 pm

GenerousGeorge wrote:...In my opinion, if we are going to dig deep into things, we all better get thicker skins and be more tolerant of others opinions about our pet peeves. We need to be ab le to say without rancor, let's agree to disagree and move on. I for one, am certainly ready. 80S

If we are going to dig deep into things let's agree to disagree and move on??? 80|
That makes a lot of sense...
The quest for truth George.. a higher truth.. comes through intelligent debate... not from giving up, not from sticking to personal opinions without sufficient evidence, not from personally attacking other participants, but from discussing intelligently, and from persisting on the topic itself.
Agreeing to disagree and move on to what? What is the quest for truth - for you?
What is the point of just sharing our opinions and moving on to share our opinions on other topics and like that forever?
That sounds like a bunch of people enamored with their own words, who like to hear themselves talk.. but it would be otherwise pointless. That kind of talk is more appropriate or at least more common on a social networking site.

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Re: What is reality, what is illusion?

Postby mirjana » Mon Apr 05, 2010 8:39 pm

George,
According to these words:
"You guys just keep on keeping on with risque pictures of Madonna etc....... I assume you are contending that was the kind of costume the judge was recommending for the 11 year old to wear. I have to say you lose credibility when you do that, yet I have seen no reply that recognizes that...... in fact you insist they are appropriate."
you haven't seen the post Holly sent how-much-is-your-soul-worth-t391s20.html
I do not like to insist on anything, but I also do not like to let things to pass that are not true.
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Re: What is reality, what is illusion?

Postby HGolightly » Mon Apr 05, 2010 8:53 pm

Reality? Illusion? Or, How much is your soul worth? In my opinion, I think there is a bit of cross-over in regards to the specific topics. I am obviously not on DS site as frequently as others; however, when I do get on the site ... I feel rather exhausted at trying to discern all of the information. Specifically, when the topics digress off topic, as I perceive it.

In my opinion, a "spirited debate" should be left at sharing ones' opinions about the aforesaid, topics, and not digress into what I perceive as being character assassinations. Keeping in mind that we all are at different stages in our lives, cultures, belief systems, experiences, religious affiliations (or, not) and the like. Perhaps, being mindful and exercising an "objective" point of view in relations to that of others.

My interest with DS is to learn from other people; even if I have a different spin on things. We can all analyze everything until there is nothing left, but rather than exercising what appears to be knee jerk reactions to what is perceived sarcasm, different school of thoughts, or what not ... how about just keeping in mind the purpose of why we are all here - within the DS forum. I'm not going to point fingers at anyone, but I would like to partake on a journey - when it is plausible for me to be on this site, to feel "uncomfortably" peaceful.

We are all here to expand, learn, and share. Even if there are opposing school of thought - let's respect one another. It's okay to "agree to disagree" ... which everyone has communicated as such. The way I see it, it's really easy to read too much into words, and or misinterpret things. I imagine if the group was having a face to face conversation - discussions would play out a bit differently, as opposed to the internet forum. Or, gloss over a point of you shared by another DS member because a few peeps are a bit focused on their own points of view/conversations. Hint ... hint - (big wink).

mirjana wrote:Come on, what is going on here? In order to follow all that what is written in this and another topic, "How much is your soul worth?” one has to be a bit more concentrated. I have just a few questions for all participants and those questions matters not because of Deep Spirits, but because of personal values and integrity:
What does "Connecting" mean to you?
...

Connecting, for me, means trying to understand different points of view. I don't necessarily have to agree with someone, or to persuade someone to agree with my perspective, but to just try to see if from a different perspective; other than my own given framework. It is important for me to try to empathize and/or sympathize from a stand point that what may not necessarily matter to me - matters to that of someone else. In return, I too, may see something more than I had previously. Not an easy task to do and uncomfortable at times, but in a limited version - this is what connecting means to me.

P.S. I'm sure this comment would be better in the "Suggestion" forum, so if it needs to be moved, I'm cool with that ...
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