Unlearn ; Purge ; Forget

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Unlearn ; Purge ; Forget

Postby Naveen » Wed Jul 07, 2010 3:10 pm

As children, our eyes are filled with wonder and freshness all the time.We don’t hold any opinion about anything. We are ready to receive. Our readiness is expressed in our glowing eyes. We lose this glow as we grow older.

If we just look at life without any opinions or fixed ideas, then we are like an empty teacup into which brewed tea can be poured. We receive because we hold nothing, because we are empty. Then we never lose our enthusiasm. We are never bored. We are like a child, innocent and fresh.

A young girl was writing something on a piece of paper. Her father asked her what it was.

She said, ‘I am writing a letter.’

He asked, ‘To whom?’

‘To me,’ she replied.

‘What does the letter say?’ he asked. She replied, ‘How do I know? I have not mailed it and I have not received it yet!’

There is so much freshness behind innocence. Life becomes an unfolding mystery every moment with it. Mind is the culprit, which typecasts life. The mind constantly wants life on its own specific terms. Innocence embraces life with life’s own terms. But the mind does not allow life to find a gateway to enter with its mysteries. With innocence, life is welcomed to share its mysteries.

Children’s eyes, are clear and empty and innocent. This is why they are in bliss. As we grow up, our eyes become filled with knowledge. Then we may have sight, but not insight; because we see through our eyes filled with opinions, judgments and beliefs. It is filtered and clouded. We see through the filter of our beliefs and conditioned memories. There is nothing new to learn from what we see because it becomes a repetition of our past memories. The learning is missed.

I shall try to see with empty eyes. Then everything I see goes deep and causes fresh insight.I find life becoming an eternally unfolding mystery. I strive to retain my innocence.

I want my innocence back :) :) :) !!
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Re: Unlearn ; Purge ; Forget

Postby mirjana » Wed Jul 07, 2010 8:28 pm

Purging topic! I like it.
I share your opinion about innocence. Glowing eyes are beautiful symbol for innocence. We recognize kindred soul by glowing eyes; we recognize pure spirit by it. Eyes are light. When somebody brings light into life we feel it, we see it and we are attracted to that kind of energy. That is why adult are trying to get child’s attention, just to get a glimpse of that energy which is close to the world they have already left or forgotten. Without that glow, we are getting away from that world of innocence forgetting the essence for being here. Maybe that is the reason that old people at the very end get that glow as a sign of awareness that they return to the innocence again.

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Re: Unlearn ; Purge ; Forget

Postby ThePermster » Wed Jul 07, 2010 9:33 pm

You implicate a child's curiosity a lot, and seem either baffled or affronted by a growing child's gradual loss of it. Would this not appear to most likely be a nature inspired process? Makes sense to me to design a child with curiosity and they'll grow to be a far more effective adult.

It would seem to me that we're forgetting our mammalian selves and assuming in their place that instead we suffer some mass cultural delusion when we're not, that's just the way we're built.
This would then really become no different from your Jiddu Krishnamurti quote thread as the crux of both points is really the same thing. One must escape the constructs of nature in order to embrace that which is ideologically desirable, in this instance, curiosity; or at a stretch perhaps some form of purity.
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Re: Unlearn ; Purge ; Forget

Postby Naveen » Thu Jul 08, 2010 2:43 pm

Please help me conclude that I don't suffer a mass cultural delusion and it's just the way I am built.

I must escape the constructs of nature to embrace the ideologically desirable.Why but?
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Re: Unlearn ; Purge ; Forget

Postby ThePermster » Thu Jul 08, 2010 5:27 pm

Well is that not a desirable thing, no?

Our mammalian self tells us to bludgeon others across the head for mating rights does it not? Surely that's not a desirable thing?

Really the key point though, is the mammalian brain is a construct of nature, not of philosophy, it doesn't have philosophy's best interests at heart and thus, even though it can often lead to impulses that indeed are beneficial to us; nature as a whole is still nonetheless an unconscious, non-philosophical designer.
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Re: Unlearn ; Purge ; Forget

Postby dermot » Sat Jul 10, 2010 10:04 pm

ThePermster wrote:Really the key point though, is the mammalian brain is a construct of nature, not of philosophy, it doesn't have philosophy's best interests at heart and thus, even though it can often lead to impulses that indeed are beneficial to us; nature as a whole is still nonetheless an unconscious, non-philosophical designer.


I may be missing something here, and i have no intention of getting into a deep dabate about the above......but

Surely philosophical thought happens after Nature has done its thing?

Nature through the birth of the body, which is an amazing feat in itself, guarantees the possibility of philosophical thought at a later date. To get to that point Nature regulates the human body and mind keeping every function ticking over at the right speed, doing things at the right time.

The idea that there is anything 'unconscious' happening here is simply not true. If you cut your skin, the information gathered, passed around the body , setting in place a continuous stream of action is amazing.
The moment we conceive an original thought we tap into consciousness.

To suggest as you seem to do that the brain/nature is somehow secondary to phiosophical thought seems to me to be simply a construct of ...philosophical thought.

Philosophical thought and reasoning can deeply enhance ones experience of Life, allowing deeper understanding and appreciationg of Nature.
d.
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Re: Unlearn ; Purge ; Forget

Postby ThePermster » Sun Jul 11, 2010 2:01 pm

Granted nature's process got us to this point and it's powers are to be respected but nonetheless the conscious, philosophical process is something that we should seek to replace it with at this point.

Why? Because philosophy is unbiased and as it is built upon the fundamental concept of reason it represents all that we can ever know in this lifeworld.
This, to me, seems the perfect reason to deem anything as more important than nature.

It's pretty self-evident that at this current point in time, our most conscious and most sentient of abilities are still extremely juvenile but imagine a future where our species has left the rungs of nature's evolutionary ladder and has instead become a being that is inherently sapient and inherently wise at the very moment of birth or maturity.
The paradoxes of nature would no longer conflict our attempts at an ordered society and peace and harmony would be easily achieved by any and all.
Some people say this is an emotionless and cold vision of the future but I would disagree, I believe real emotion demands conciousness, everything else is but a whimsical feeling.
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Re: Unlearn ; Purge ; Forget

Postby dermot » Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:46 pm

I agree that reasoned thinking brings new and balanced awareness, and that thats the way forward for individuals and society at large.

Forgetting that the basics of Philosophical thinking ie Truth, Beauty, and Love are already inherent in Nature already could be a costly mistake?

Surely it would be better to work with, rather than assume that one has to counter the effects of Nature.

If we agree that mans fundamental nature is to be Loving, and that most people embark on a journey to rediscover that simple truth, then using Nature to illustrate that Love is fundamental is probably the easiest way to reach reasoned thinking?

Methinks.........its going to take a llllllllll ooooooooooo nnnnnnnn gggggggggg time!
....the heart only whispers, be still and listen....
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Re: Unlearn ; Purge ; Forget

Postby ThePermster » Tue Jul 13, 2010 3:44 pm

I wouldn't call truth, love and beauty philosophically basic. Truth can't exist upon reason alone and the other two are seen by philosophy as either non-existent or indefinite.

Regardless though, supposing that they indeed were present in the processes of nature, that does not negate the fact that nature - as a designer - is not as direct and passive as the hypothetically perfect philosophical mind.
The idea being that you're not trying to "counter" the effects of nature necessarily, merely ignoring their compulsions in order to hone on the more efficient path.

I'm afraid I don't agree that man's most fundamental nature is to be loving. What reasons can you provide that might sway me to believe the same assumption?
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Re: Unlearn ; Purge ; Forget

Postby dermot » Wed Jul 14, 2010 9:55 pm

ThePermster wrote:I'm afraid I don't agree that man's most fundamental nature is to be loving. What reasons can you provide that might sway me to believe the same assumption?


Its probable that i would not try to sway you at all, having said that ...its my firm belief that human nature is fundamentally Loving.

To engage on a mission of philosophical reasoning without the underlying belief that human nature is fundamentally loving, would seem to be an exercise in self deception.
If human nature is fundamentally non-loving, then all that will be revealed at the end of philosophical reasoning would be ones own flawed nature, this would surely negate any lofty ideals of a more reasoned society emerging.

I think debate on this issue is too fractured if we dont start from the same agreed point, that being for me that human nature is Loving.

It does seem rather disconcering that we would differ so fundamentally on this, as it seems we both have spent some time in formal Philosophical circles.....one would presume that as 'philosophers' we would agree.
Maybe therein lies the flaw in simple Philosophical Reasoning.....it aint gonna work if we arent singing from the same hymn sheet.

However, adopting a belief in Goodness would seem like a basis for positive change. A childs eyes dont lie.
d.
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