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Time as limitation

PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 2:40 pm
by mirjana
I have learned recently one wisdom from the second hand, so I do not know the author of it, but it sounded interesting to me, like, there are two days in the week we shouldn't worry about, yesterday and tomorrow, as we do not know anything about it.
My thoughts are that if putting our attention into something that does not exist appears like we consciously take from us some quality of life (not time), by caring about something that does not exist (Time).
How the aspects of time influence your life?
When you are more aware of time and when less?
What could we do so that time does not influence the quality of our life?


Splitting hairs

PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 3:55 pm
by Sabina
That particular quote sounds to me like it's rather about worrying and less about time.

There is a similar quote in the bible, but only in reference to tomorrow as far as I know.
"[color=#5f0000]Therefore do not worry about tomorrow,
for tomorrow will worry about itself.
Each day has enough trouble of its own.

So even though the message is positive ("don't worry") it doesn't sound very optimistic if you look at it closely, implying that each day has enough trouble of its own...

The King James bible version:
"[color=#5f0000]Take therefore no thought for the morrow:
for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself.
Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

I thought it was interesting that the word "trouble" is slightly different in this version.
[size=85]Source: [url=]Matthew 6:34[/url][/size]

A variation of that says something to the extent of not worrying about yesterday, because it has already happened, and as we cannot change what happened, why worry about it. I don't know the source/author of that saying though.

Just some additional thoughts, now back to your questions...
[quote="mirjana"][color=#5f0000]How the aspects of time influence your life?
When you are more aware of time and when less?
What could we do so that time does not influence the quality of our life?[/color]

I think my perception of time has very much changed with age. It is more balanced now.
When I was very young, then the "Time flies when you're having fun" was very true.
Now, time flies all the time, whether I work, or play.
So.. either my perception of time is more balanced, or I am just having fun all the time. :)

How does time influence the quality of life?
I am not sure I understand that part.


Re: Time as limitations

PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 5:58 pm
by Metatron
Great topic Mirjana. It's not the first time I hear a quote about time, yesterday, today and tomorrow, however, I have always felt this is easier to say than do. After all, us, kids are facing the problem of future ever since we start school, sometimes even before it. We are put under pressure not just by our family, which at that point has the biggest influence over our minds, but later also our school environment. We are being told that without education, we basically won't have a bright future. Some parents take it terribly far, beating up their kids for bad marks, even chasing them to death - and no, this is no exaggeration, it was a big scandal when the 12-13 year-old son of one of my teachers hung himself at home, with his pupils book under himself, wide open with a bad mark in it.

To me then it is no wonder that teenagers and adults aren't able to get over having to worry about their future (and maybe that is the reason why I am writing these lines). Im not quite sure wether it is right to make such a clear distinction between the past, today and tomorrow. After all, events that happened in the past have a direct connection to our state of mind today and that probably will have an affect on our future state as well. I also don't see a good reason for saying it is better to worry about something that will happen in a few hours (i.e. tomorrow) after that period of time has passed, rather than before it passes. Or am I taking this too literally?

But then, when does the right time come to worry? Not all our problems begin at a time we know of and we also cannot say that we know when the outcome of a problem will be known to us. Or should we not worry at all? Now, this is again easy to say but there have been tons of occasions when I simply couldn't help myself but worry. After all, if we clearly know that a problem will have a negative outcome, how do we not worry?

How the aspects of time influence your life?
When you are more aware of time and when less?
What could we do so that time does not influence the quality of our life?


Time influences my life greatly, because it doesn't only tell me when do I get to do something I like, but also that which I don't. I hate time in the morning, when it steals my dreams and practically laughs in my face when it chases me out of bed. I hate time when it ignorantly ends a happening that's brining me joy. I could say it is like your boss at work. People usually (not always) hate their bosses, because those are people who limit our freedom - they tell us what we can and cannot do. So time does influence almost every aspect of my life.

The second question is a great one, because that's what makes time so relative. To me and probably to others as well, time passes terribly quickly when they're doing something they enjoy and the opposite is true when they're doing something they hate. The philosophy lessons at my school seem so short, since listening to my teacher is always great. On the contrary, german lessons seem to be never ending (gott, sie sind so schrecklich und langweilig :D )

To the third question - anyone who can tell me a way to do this that actually works in practice and not just in theory, will be a god in my eyes :D Seriously, how does a spoiled townskid like me not let time influence his life? Ok, spolied is maybe a bit harsh, but I tend to be materialistic. I like to hav my PC, TV, phone and such stuff and to have that, (later on) I will have to make money - the saying "time is money" is quite telling. I have to sacrifice time in order to study and later to work, and not all of the aspect of these are enjoyable. And as I have mentioned above, I tend to notice time more when I do something that isn't enjoyable, since a point in the future, which will be the end of the said activity will also mean the end of my torture.

So I guess the third question beats me 80S

Re: Time as limitation

PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 6:54 pm
by Ryan
I don't think time influences the quality of life... at least it does not influence mine ...I am generally the only thing that sincerely influences my life (of course I am not referring to those I give special privileges to also touch my life... but again it is I that allows such external influences).


The whole "time doesn't exists" matter is interesting... I tend to believe that "time" does exist but it is a human made thing... it is not natural... yet some would argue and still say that it doesn't exist... and these same people will take the process of "measurement" of... let's say quantum intelligence... as proof that it exists but disregard it as a proof when it comes to the measurement of time... or other things that are being measured that they insist don't exist. I find that very interesting and in a way humorous.

Re: Time as limitation

PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 10:25 pm
by Metatron
[quote="Ryan"]as proof that it exists but disregard it as a proof when it comes to the measurement of time... or other things that are being measured that they insist don't exist. I find that very interesting and in a way humorous.

No, time doesn't have to exist to be measured. There are two options, as far as I know. Time exists as a separate dimension as it was postulated by Albert Einstein in his theory of relativity and is something simmilar to the three dimensions of space. Or, time is simply another word for constant change. Not one second in this world is the same as the previous one. Everything is constantly on the move, "you cannot step into the same river twice".

The second case would be the one where time is a made-up, nonexistent, yet measurable physical constant. Obviously, I am not an expert on this field, so take my words with a pinch of salt and look it up for yourself, if you're interested :)

Re: Time as limitation

PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 12:54 am
by mirjana
How the aspects of time influence your life?

If you belong to those who says things like:
- I can not come I do nor have time...or you put time as a limitations for you to do what you want and what makes you feel happy by doing it, then you allow time to be one of limitations of this reality and therefore influence your life.

When you are more aware of time and when less?

Time is too slow for those who wait, too swift for those who fear, too long for those who grieve, too short for those who rejoice, but for those who love, time is eternity.
Henry van Dyke(1852-1933) : American clergyman & writer
It is a nice illustration about the fact how relative is time. It depends on the observer and the object of the observation.

What could we do so that time does not influence the quality of our life?

"In theory one is aware that the earth revolves, but in practice one does not perceive it, the ground upon which one treads seems not to move, and one can live undisturbed. So it is with Time in one's life."
Marcel Proust
Source: The Past Recaptured, 1927
"Like students of art who walk around a great statue, seeing parts and aspects of it from each position, but never the whole, we must walk mentally around time, using a variety of approaches, a pandemonium of metaphor."

"The extent to which we live from day to day, from week to week, intent on details and oblivious to larger presences, is a gauge of our impoverishment in time."

Robert Grudin : Gaia Explorer
Source: Time and the Art of Living,


Re: Time as limitation

PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 2:07 am
by Ryan
I understand, but was misunderstood...

I didn't imply that time had to exist because it can be measured, I said I believe time to exist as a creation of man/humans.

However!! I did take the aspect of measuring of anything (not time specifically) with which some (not necessarily me) present as a proof to the existence of something (providing the example of quantum intelligence as that something) yet disregard measurement as a proof when something else's existence is in question (like time for example)... and was intrigued to hear input/thoughts on the approach.

But! To discuss the existence of "whatever" (rivers, time, penguins in the arctic), it must be clearly defined and understood by all involved to be a productive discussion. If the topic is "you cannot step into the same river twice" then that point of view would depend on what a river is. If a river is merely the path water takes while traveling from point A to point B, then that argument "does not hold water"...forgive the pun. However if your definition of a river being the "same" river is now dependent upon its chemical, mineral, and molecular composition and that because the water is flowing and it picks up and deposits all kinds of materials, evaporates, etc then the statement would "hold water"... kind of... because if you want to start looking at things from that point of don't exist in the same state from moment to moment either (so could never step in, on or around anything twice). Your cells are (for the most part)completely regenerate in roughly 7 year intervals... so if only to consider the physical changes your body is constantly going through by the time I say "You don't exist!"... you don't... well, not the "same" you...

Re: Time as limitation

PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 10:44 pm
by mirjana
Your cells are (for the most part)completely regenerate in roughly 7 year intervals... so if only to consider the physical changes your body is constantly going through by the time I say "You don't exist!"... you don't... well, not the "same" you...

Somehow I missed this whole topic (although I have started it), which is quite irresponsible...I am sorry.
I love this last sentence Ryan and understand all other arguments you have said, especially the one that the time exist as a creation of humans.
I think that time is a measure for change, nothing more. Or other limitations are only results of our separation. When we are one with that what we do, which means completely in it, enjoying with full of our being, time is without importance, as there is no observer to measure it, as the observer and the observed are one.
I think that is why is so important to have as more as possible such creative and blissful moments in life when we are enjoying (in the joy, we are joy). When we are in love, in the idea of creation and in the process of the realization of that idea, when we are giving or receiving love, or when our passion enters the beauty of art, poetry, literature, movies, we identify with another with whom we share the moment, or the inspiring object, becoming one with them. There is no observer of someone/something and the observed. There is no separation. In such moments we come close to eternity or to the source of eternal youth as there is no time, space or matter, just the awareness of self as a whole with everything around.


Re: Time as limitation

PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 1:19 am
by Randall
Mirjana there is a modern day philosipher and writer named Eckhart Tolle that presents this very idea in a book called "The Power of Now".

Here are some quotes from his book.

[quote]Be present as the watcher of your mind -- of your thoughts and emotions as well as your reactions in various situations. Be at least as interested in your reactions as in the situation or person that causes you to react. Notice also how often your attention is in the past or future. Don't judge or analyze what you observe. Watch the thought, feel the emotion, observe the reaction. Don't make a personal problem out of them. You will then feel something more powerful than any of those things that you observe: the still, observing presence itself behind the content of your mind, the silent watcher.

Sounds alot like what you have posted ;0)

[quote]Being is not only beyond but also deep within every form as its innermost invisible and indestructible essence. This means that it is accessible to you now as your own deepest self, your true nature. But don't seek to grasp it with your mind. Don't try to understand it. You can know it only when the mind is still. When you are present, when your attention is fully and intensely in the Now, Being can be felt, but it can never be understood mentally. To regain awareness of Being and to abide in that state of "feeling-realization" is enlightenment.

[quote]Having access to that formless realm is truly liberating. It frees you from bondage to form and identification with form. It is life in its undifferentiated state prior to its fragmentation into multiplicity. We may call it the Unmanifested, the invisible Source of all things, the Being within all beings. It is a realm of deep stillness and peace, but also of joy and intense aliveness. Whenever you are present, you become "transparent" to some extent to the light, the pure consciousness that emanates from this Source. You also realize that the light is not separate from who you are but constitutes your very essence.
You are not just a meaningless fragment in an alien universe, briefly suspended between life and death, allowed a few short-lived pleasures followed by pain and ultimate annihilation. Underneath your outer form, you are connected with something so vast, so immeasurable and sacred, that it cannot be spoken of - yet I am speaking of it now. I am speaking of it now not to give you something to believe in but to show you how you can know it for yourself.

[quote]The word enlightenment conjures up the idea of some superhuman accomplishment, and the ego likes to keep it that way, but it is simply your natural state of felt oneness with Being. It is a state of connectedness with something immeasurable and indestructible, something that, almost paradoxically, is essentially you and yet is much greater than you. It is finding your true nature beyond name and form.

[quote]Many expressions that are in common usage, and sometimes the structure of language itself, reveal the fact that people don't know who they are. You say: "He lost his life" or "my life," as if life were something that you can possess or lose. The truth is: you don't have a life, you are life. The One Life, the one consciousness that pervades the entire universe and takes temporary form to experience itself as a stone or blade of grass, as an animal, a person, a star or a galaxy.

Can you sense deep within that you already know that? Can you sense that you already are That?

Re: Time as limitation

PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 2:59 am
by mirjana
=0) yes Randall; I know and read this book. He is not the only one who has written about the concept of now. I love Chopra's thoughts about it as well. Both are great teachers.
When there is a teaching close to us it just becomes part of us as the thought has always been there. When I was in the college I used to play basket ball professionally. I was crazy about that sport and when playing nothing else mattered . In the moments of jumping, and my jump was quite high, just before the moment I would let the ball there was a moment of no time and no space and awareness of something which is not comparable with anything else. I was in that moment Jonathan Livingston seagull. Those were my first personal experiences of leaving this reality limitation for the short period of time. I would talk with my friends from the team, but not all of them were aware of that feeling. I think that awareness is the key, because without awareness there is only separation.
When couching people today I use many of meridian techniques that belong to Spiritual Technology. The main principles in them are to transcend time and space, to become aware of the observer within and to become one with everyone and everything around. All those principles are the same these two great teachers are teaching. What I try is to help as more people I can to have their personal experiences and become aware of that there are no limitations except those our mind makes it.
Sorry, I was a bit too long, but the question was inspiring and voilĂ  ...