The Social Network - The movie

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Re: The Social Network - The movie

Postby Jade » Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:48 am

I find it interesting that you took my comment personally Metatron when I clearly spoke of 'the majority of people'.
If some part of you recognized yourself (even if only an aspect of yourself) it may bring you good fortune to explore that path.
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Re: The Social Network - The movie

Postby Sabina » Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:34 pm

Metatron wrote:I understand your argument, really. Although to me it's a bit slim. The reason why I don't think Facebook and Zuckerberg in particular minded the movie was made is that it didn't judge. It didn't really say this or that person was right or wrong, it just told a story. I've seen people say it inspired them to start their own internet company - which is a coplete ignoration of the rest of the events.

Also, according to the movie, Zuckerberg really didn't use any of the source code of the Winklevosses, so I wouldn't call it that much of a plagiarism. He did steal some ideas, that is true. But even according to the movie, the most well known features like the "Like" button or "Tagging" came originally from Facebook. Some quotes about originality:

~ Originality is the fine art of remembering what you hear but forgetting where you heard it. ~
Laurence J. Peter

~ What is originality? Undetected plagiarism. ~
Dean Inge

~ Original thought is like original sin: both happened before you were born to people you could not have possibly met. ~
Fran Lebowitz

So I wouldn't really blame Zuckreberg for this. Also, the reason why Facebook became successful is because there's a hell of an amount of effort in that site - the Winklevosses did have a chance to succeed with HarvardConnection (or ConnectU, as it later became known), but the site was slow, often unresponsive - I have rarely detected such problems with Facebook. We have seen in the past that some social netwroks, despite their huge popularity, went down on the road because of some problems (like MySpace). ConnectU had its chance and they blew it.

And probably the biggest issue of all... The way Zuckerberg got rid of Eduardo Saverin may not have been nice. However, since January this year he owns approximately 5% of FB shares, making him a billionare (the shares are worth 1.1 billion USD - I wouldn't call him a poor guy -list of FB shares) And here's an interview with Saverin himself, sharing his opinions about The Social Network.

All in all, the movie doesn't give me strong enough of a reason to delete my account.


Yes, the movie didn't judge, it just told the story... that's correct :)
It left it up to the viewers to interpret, to judge, have opinions, have no opinions, or get inspired, as you put it.
By the way, as for people getting inspired to start up an internet company based on this, that doesn't surprise me. After all, he is the youngest billionaire in the world. So some have been "inspired" to start up internet companies based on this.... big deal. People get inspired by all kinds of things. Even serial killers have copycats.

Next you bring up the plagiarism factor. I'm not even going to go there, because it bears very little relevance in this entire argument for me.

You mentioned "the amount of effort in that site".... millions of websites have an incredible amount of effort behind them. But that is never the reason to succeed.
A great idea + huge effort?
Is that the magic formula?
Nope, still not enough!!
Now ask yourself, what gave it the possibility to succeed? What gave it the boost?
Or better yet, a few different boosts at different times...
When you have figured that out, you can understand me.

It is that what is needed nowadays for a quick success.
And I'll be damned before I give that kind of shite any of my time or energy.
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Re: The Social Network - The movie

Postby Ryan » Thu Feb 24, 2011 2:44 am

For me... I stopped using Facebook long before the movie... I went there to checkup on old friends that I hadn't seen/heard from in YEARS!

I then found out that I had some family there that it had been even longer since I had any contact with them. It was fun, I got into it... and one day I was looking through the things people were writing... and they were writing to everyone and no one... it was depressing... it didn't bring people together, closer, or help them keep in touch... there was nothing really significant being said from anyone... there is no real exchange. It was more like a platform for self-promotion...

I used it to find friends, after that, in the since that sometimes someone would want to be my "friend" and I would go approve the request and then explain that I am no longer on Facebook but if they wanted to talk we could write e-mails...

Until the movie... what can I say? I take part in social communities on the web... Deep Spirits is one... and here there is an exchange. People (for the most part) read and try to understand and then reply in a supportive or contradictory manner... and that is great! Sabina and I have setup another place for our family where all of us can go to share more personal matters that some are not comfortable with displaying for any and every body.

I do believe it to be more a generational thing... I mean if I were 20 years (or more) younger I would probably think Facebook is a gas... but it isn't for me... it was superficial, full of cheesy facades... it was plastic...

I get it, though, we all have different colored glasses on and we see things through our own perspectives and experiences and we have different goals being at different points in our lives... and that's cool. No sweat... but in all honesty... if you read the article on wikipedia there can't be much disputing the film was "biographical" and "nonfictional"...
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Re: The Social Network - The movie

Postby Metatron » Fri Feb 25, 2011 7:35 pm

Sabina wrote:
Yes, the movie didn't judge, it just told the story... that's correct :)
It left it up to the viewers to interpret, to judge, have opinions, have no opinions, or get inspired, as you put it.
By the way, as for people getting inspired to start up an internet company based on this, that doesn't surprise me. After all, he is the youngest billionaire in the world. So some have been "inspired" to start up internet companies based on this.... big deal. People get inspired by all kinds of things. Even serial killers have copycats.
You mentioned "the amount of effort in that site".... millions of websites have an incredible amount of effort behind them. But that is never the reason to succeed.
A great idea + huge effort?
Is that the magic formula?
Nope, still not enough!!
Now ask yourself, what gave it the possibility to succeed? What gave it the boost?
Or better yet, a few different boosts at different times...
When you have figured that out, you can understand me.

It is that what is needed nowadays for a quick success.
And I'll be damned before I give that kind of shite any of my time or energy.


Okay, first of all, I mentioned inspiration in relation to the movie, not Facebook itself - I was trying to put into contrast your reaction to the film and the reaction of those who found inspiration in it. They're extremes - not everyone took it as a trigger to deleting their accounts. And by pointing this out I didn't mean to praise Facebook or the movie - I'm well aware that people get inspired and motivated by lots of things.

Second - by effort I meant the site works much better compared to some other social networks. People stick to it not because they don't have another option, but because it works well. If it didn't work well, people would abandon it and I guarantee you it could get all the boosts in the world, people wouldn't give a damn. Just like it is happening to MySpace or MyVIP or iWiW (the two latter are hungarian social networks)

No, I don't understand what you mean by "boost". Call me stupid but I have no memory of anything like that from the movie :P From what you've told me so far, it is still not clear to me why it was the movie that made you delete your account. My one guess is Facebook games, or collecting private data for ads, but that I'm sure you knew about before and those are not Facebook exlusive "evils".

Ryan wrote:I get it, though, we all have different colored glasses on and we see things through our own perspectives and experiences and we have different goals being at different points in our lives... and that's cool. No sweat... but in all honesty... if you read the article on wikipedia there can't be much disputing the film was "biographical" and "nonfictional"...


Since you're using Wikipedia as a reference, I'm going to use that too, however, I'm not sure we've read the same article. It is stated and cited, in several parts of the article, that the movie makers used their facts rather loosely. Here's one of those quotes:

"The biographical part takes liberties with its subject. Aaron Sorkin based his supersmart and superbly funny screenplay on a contentious book, Ben Mezrich's The Accidental Billionaires, so everything that's seen isn't necessarily to be believed."

Further, even if quotes like these weren't there, the article doesn't explicitely say the movie should be considered biographical and nonfictional. It does say the movie was very well received and critics loved it - that however, is no reason to believe they also think the movie is to be trusted.

As I already said to Mirjana, I understand the rest of your reasons for deleting your account, those make sense, but what part does the movie play in this is still somewhat a mystery to me.
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Re: The Social Network - The movie

Postby Jade » Sun Feb 27, 2011 4:43 pm

"I live in that solitude which is painful in youth,
but delicious in the years of maturity."

Albert Einstein

May be worth a thought. =0/ =0X
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Re: The Social Network - The movie

Postby Sabina » Mon Feb 28, 2011 7:17 pm

Jade, I am not sure if I can agree with that quote as a general rule or approach.
I, for one, have enjoyed solitude in my younger youth (notice the careful wording) and I enjoy it now as well. At the same time I have always enjoyed companionship with interesting people as well.
I don't necessarily see it as a matter of age or maturity, though it can be as well, for some... but it is too general to make it a "rule of thumb" or anything like that, in my opinion anyway.

Metatron,
You wrote... "Also, the reason why Facebook became successful is because there's a hell of an amount of effort in that site "
and then "by effort I meant the site works much better compared to some other social networks."
Effort, so "the site working better compared to other social networks", is not enough of a reason for a site to become successful. Do you really not see that?
Do you know how many social networks websites there are out there? Facebook wasn't even the first!

Wikipedia wrote:New social networking methods were developed by the end of the 1990s, and many sites began to develop more advanced features for users to find and manage friends. This newer generation of social networking sites began to flourish with the emergence of Friendster in 2002, and soon became part of the Internet mainstream. Friendster was followed by MySpace and LinkedIn a year later, and finally, Bebo. Attesting to the rapid increase in social networking sites' popularity, by 2005, MySpace was reportedly getting more page views than Google.

And David... the above are just the big ones... the more popular ones..... B0)
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Re: The Social Network - The movie

Postby Metatron » Mon Feb 28, 2011 11:59 pm

Sabina wrote:Metatron,
You wrote... "Also, the reason why Facebook became successful is because there's a hell of an amount of effort in that site "
and then "by effort I meant the site works much better compared to some other social networks."
Effort, so "the site working better compared to other social networks", is not enough of a reason for a site to become successful. Do you really not see that?
Do you know how many social networks websites there are out there? Facebook wasn't even the first!

Wikipedia wrote:New social networking methods were developed by the end of the 1990s, and many sites began to develop more advanced features for users to find and manage friends. This newer generation of social networking sites began to flourish with the emergence of Friendster in 2002, and soon became part of the Internet mainstream. Friendster was followed by MySpace and LinkedIn a year later, and finally, Bebo. Attesting to the rapid increase in social networking sites' popularity, by 2005, MySpace was reportedly getting more page views than Google.

And David... the above are just the big ones... the more popular ones..... B0)


Believe it or not, I'm very much aware of all the above mentioned. Orkut, which isn't even mentioned above, has three times the audience of Facebook. But for some reason you're avoiding my question, or waiting for me to ask directly, so here goes: Why is Facebook so evil in your opinion? Please, enlighten me :P
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Re: The Social Network - The movie

Postby Ryan » Tue Mar 01, 2011 3:44 am

'Sup David!!

It has been a while since we have "mixed it up" here in the Ole DS Coliseum, huh?
80S

Well, let's see... prior to the Oscar awards, the underlined portion of the quote below only said biographical when I wrote my initial post...
on Feb 24, 2011 Wikipedia wrote:The Social Network is a 2010 semi-biographical drama film about the founding of the social networking website Facebook and the resulting lawsuits


And the other part I had referred to was:
Wikipedia wrote:Aaron Sorkin adapted his screenplay from Ben Mezrich's 2009 nonfiction book The Accidental Billionaires.


The part you quoted came from the section of the article entitled "Critical response" to which it states "Some reviewers pointed out that the film plays loosely with the facts behind Facebook's founding."... umm... there's a reliable source! And the other "Joe Morgenstern in The Wall Street Journal praised the film as exhilarating but noted: "The biographical part takes liberties with its subject. Aaron Sorkin based his supersmart and superbly funny screenplay on a contentious book, Ben Mezrich's The Accidental Billionaires, so everything that's seen isn't necessarily to be believed." But there is a part of Joe Morgenstern's article that was left out of that quote... You can read the whole review here... but here's the entire quote:
Joe Morgenstern wrote:The biographical part takes liberties with its subject. Aaron Sorkin based his supersmart and superbly funny screenplay on a contentious book, Ben Mezrich's "The Accidental Billionaires," so everything that's seen isn't necessarily to be believed. (And it may be accidental that the subject chose the week before the movie's release to announce his gift of $100 million to the schools of Newark, N.J.)

Hmmm... you see David, no one here is condemning an online social software... no one is saying Facebook is evil... What Sabina has a problem with is empowering yet another scrupleless money hungry "pioneer of industry". When you look back at the atrocities of human history... do we just condemn the leaders that caused them or do we condemn all of those that supported them and gave them the power to do them... and when we put ourselves in those situations how would we like to see ourselves behaving/reacting?

And as an explanation to my problem with your argument as to the validity of the book's and movie's accusations/insinuations of Mark Zuckerberg's personality... the only people disputing them are reviewers and critics... not Mark Zuckerberg. If these things were false and slanderous the movie should have never been made... it would have ended with the book... or Mark Zuckerberg would own them both by now.
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Re: The Social Network - The movie

Postby Sabina » Tue Mar 01, 2011 4:00 am

Ryan wrote:What Sabina has a problem with is empowering yet another scrupleless money hungry "pioneer of industry". When you look back at the atrocities of human history... do we just condemn the leaders that caused them or do we condemn all of those that supported them and gave them the power to do them... and when we put ourselves in those situations how would we like to see ourselves behaving/reacting?

Exactly! Excellent analogy!
I would even expand on it a bit.. and add psychology/sociology experiments, such as Stanley Milgram's Obedience experiment or the Ash Conformity Experiment...
They are so fitting here!

It's easy for anyone to imagine themselves in these scenarios and imagine that they would behave differently... but we all get confronted with such situations (experiments or tests of life) on our path and we have can choose right there and then, and our choices speak louder than any words ever could.
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Re: The Social Network - The movie

Postby mirjana » Tue Mar 01, 2011 6:28 pm

Ryan,
I gave you Kudos for the last answer as I wanted to say something like this but I couldn´t say it as clear as you did.
Sabina,
Your additional exploration serves the same feeling by me.
David,
As about myself, answering your question, I can add only this. Personally I can make and I certainly do mistakes by following something that is not good to be followed. If it happens it is only because of a lack of knowledge about the true nature of that But, what I can do at least is not to follow things for which I have a proof, according to my standards, not to be that what I consider as a right thing.
One more thing. My first reaction to close my Face book account was a spontaneous reaction of my heart after some discoveries. All this talk in this topic, especially your questions, then answers of Ryan and Sabina, you and me again… helped me to become more convinced about the importance of this decision for me. Thank you all for that.
Last edited by mirjana on Tue Mar 01, 2011 6:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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