The Problem with Implying

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Re: The Problem with Implying

Postby Sabina » Sun Apr 11, 2010 9:44 pm

David, Mirjana, everyone,
Imagine the following...

__4__

A Dialogue between Person A and Person B

    - I heard that you think I am wearing a black dress. Why would you say that?

    - What do you mean? I said it because it is plain to see.

    - Well, I don't understand how you could see it as a black dress, when I am wearing blue pants and a blue shirt.

    - I am sorry... you are right.
    Now that I had a better look I can see that you are wearing a blue dress.


    - What?!? What are you talking about? :(
    I am not wearing a dress at all, I am wearing blue pants and a blue shirt.


    - What?

    - Please let go of the view you originally had of me. You thought I am wearing a black dress. Now you say I am wearing a blue dress. You still don't see me for who I am!!
    I am not wearing a dress at all!


    - ...
__11__

Silly example? Perhaps...
I have had (and/or witnessed) more elaborate variations of the above conversation with various people multiple times. If it is about something as banal as in the above dialogue, then of course it doesn't really matter. But what if it isn't? My question is... person A... what can they do? What can they say?
"Whether You believe you can, or you can't, you are right."
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Re: The Problem with Implying

Postby Ryan » Sun Apr 11, 2010 10:08 pm

As an example of a possible assumption:
How many people assume that Sabina is talking about something that happened here on this forum?
=0@
[R] If you don't understand something I said or why I said it... ask me.
If you don't want to understand something I said or why I said it... tell me.
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Re: The Problem with Implying

Postby mirjana » Sun Apr 11, 2010 11:13 pm

If I was a person A and have a positive experience about the fact that the person B doesn't want to recognize what do I wear =0@ , then I would step back from the relationship as it will be the sign for me that the person B doesn't respect me. Without mutual respect no relationship is possible.
Of course, it would be like that after I have first tried to explain what I do wear helping the person B to SEE it. But, if the person B doesn't see it, or believe more to the person C who knows even less what do I wear, then I would really not try any more to help them to see who am I and what do I wear. It hurts sometimes when it touches people for who we care or we think that we can be close, but we cannot force anybody to see us as we are if they do not want it.
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Re: The Problem with Implying

Postby Metatron » Mon Apr 12, 2010 12:43 am

I think Mirjana said it well. If someone refuses to see then I'm not gonna try to chase them to better understanding. It also may be that I have started a thought process in them which will eventually lead them to the truth, and they just don't want to admit this.
Who the hell is it you try to impress?

All you have to do is learn to care less!
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Re: The Problem with Implying

Postby Sabina » Mon Apr 12, 2010 12:50 am

But then what chance does this world have if relationships break so easily over assumptions and people's unwillingness to let go of them?
If people assume, and even go a step further as to draw conclusions based on their assumptions, then how ever do we tackle more complex problems than that?

You see, my problem is that it is hard for me to accept this.... is there really no other way?
If it works out it works out...
If it doesn't work out, then it doesn't...
If it looks like it's working out, but then it looks like it doesn't, then it doesn't...
80|
Doesn't that seem very crude and hopeless?
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Re: The Problem with Implying

Postby Metatron » Mon Apr 12, 2010 12:56 am

Yes it does, but no matter how hard I think about it, I don't see any other explanation. You know, the problem is, that a person who is wrong about something and refuses your opinion, might be already aware of the fact that they're wrong, they just don't want to admit it. You can't make someone say something they don't want to.

And then, if they really believe their crap... well, how can do you fight religion? :)
Who the hell is it you try to impress?

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Re: The Problem with Implying

Postby mirjana » Mon Apr 12, 2010 1:02 pm

Sabina wrote:But then what chance does this world have if relationships break so easily over assumptions and people's unwillingness to let go of them?
If people assume, and even go a step further as to draw conclusions based on their assumptions, then how ever do we tackle more complex problems than that?

You see, my problem is that it is hard for me to accept this.... is there really no other way?
If it works out it works out...
If it doesn't work out, then it doesn't...
If it looks like it's working out, but then it looks like it doesn't, then it doesn't...
80|
Doesn't that seem very crude and hopeless?



Good thought Sabina that inspired my second thought as well. When I opened the process of the second thought many new thoughts appeared and between them one significant movie that eventually could be very illustrative for our talk. This is the movie "Kane and Abel"


We normally know that the biblical story is connected with two brothers. In this movie it is about two men that are only born the same day. We all can be brothers to each other or not, or not to be brothers even if we are, depending what is the choice for our course of actions. And this movie points it very well.
What is the connection with this movie and our topic and the other one:
Empathy, Sympathy & Emotional Intelligence empathy,-sympathy-&-emotional-intelligence-p4140.html#p4140athy ?
Well, the whole life remorse that happened to one of them was because he excluded the other from his life based on his assumption. Based on his assumption(which were covered with events from life that seemed just like he had asumpted things),he excluded actually the only real person from his life, punishing not only himself for not havine the whole spectrum of life that he normaly could have it, but many other peole were punished too. In the moment of realization he was filled with remorse, but he was not able to turn things back and not much of other demages was possible to repair. So, my point is, do we really need such experiences in our life? Do we really need to make the whole chain of conclusions about some events and baseing our behaviour on them exclude some people from our life? Isn't it more logical to give another chance to the people as how else the change would be possible in any relationship? If there is no chance for exchange, how to achieve positive moving in any kind of relationship. Of course that this is also very connected with the topic
The Power of Forgiveness the-power-of-forgiveness-t462.html

I prefer to have repeating problems with someone close to me than not to have any relation because of my understanding of the situation I considered or assumed to deserve my pulling back, based on events I saw like that. I would always give a new chance to someone close and for whom I care. I prefer that than the remorse that I could have because of taking something from my life .
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Re: The Problem with Implying

Postby GenerousGeorge » Tue Apr 13, 2010 3:29 am

If I am going to assume something, it should probably be that I should accept what people say at face value without coloring that with my own agenda. It is part of being honest with yourself. Recognizing that and practicing it are two different things. =0/

One problem I have with not assuming is that it may be somehow connected to intuition, which I think is an important element of how we come to conclusions.

Maybe I am being "Devils Advocate" here some, but sometimes if I insinuate something it is to make people think. (including myself) Sometimes when you are "too direct", you get the opposite effect you were looking for in the first place.

There have been times that I have been wrong about about something just because the persons "attitude" seemed to me to be hostile. I guess the bottom line is to not be too hasty to judgement or too quick too assume and that a little "try being honest with yourself" session is needed before assuming much of anything.

Once you fire off that H-Bomb, it is too late or at least much harder to fix mistakes.
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Re: The Problem with Implying

Postby blueStar » Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:54 am

I just discovered the power of using the phrase "would you like" as opposed to "do you want"

If you search the definition of the two words you can see that asking "would" is more empowering and direct. Do you want feels like you have an expectation to "want" that which is offered. That can put you in a delicate situation. I know it seems subtle, but to me it feels better to ask "would you like".

Want also implies lack. By wanting something you seem to be already without it and you have even yet to respond to the question.


Would you like?
[1913 Webster]
1. To wish; to desire; to incline to have.

Do you want?
[1913 Webster]
1. To be without; to be destitute of, or deficient in; not to
have; to lack; as, to want knowledge; to want judgment; to
want learning; to want food and clothing.
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Re: The Problem with Implying

Postby Sabina » Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:00 am

Makes sense blueStar!
"Would you like" is definitely the more emotionally intelligent option than "Do you want".
Even if it's a subtle difference it can, in reality, produce considerably different reactions.

When we express ourselves in an emotionally intelligent manner then people are more likely to understand us and see us as a "friendly" (as opposed to an "enemy" who just wants to invade our territory or persona).

The question is though, is all that necessary?
If everyone always said what they meant, then theoretically speaking, there would be no need to assume anything about what people mean, and therefore expressing ourselves in an emotionally intelligent way would be less important.

It's a thought... I have tried to imagine what all that would entail and it's probably more complex than we (or I) can even realize right now.
"Whether You believe you can, or you can't, you are right."
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