The Golden Rule

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The Golden Rule

Postby dermot » Fri Sep 24, 2010 9:25 pm

'Live honestly, harm no man and render to each his due'. (Justinian)

__5__

This along with the line 'Do onto others, as you would have them do onto you' forms the basis for many religious doctrines, and general ethics based teachings worldwide.

Its undoubtedly a tall order......

I go into a coffee shop, the waitress asks me if i enjoyed my coffee........
I need to answer with honesty, whilst making sure i do not upset her by my honesty if i have not enjoyed the coffee, and i must 'render to each his dues'.

The alternative is to swallow my frustration with a negative experience, internalise my feeling of having to be dishonest by 'pretending' (lying) that it was lovely, whilst handing over my money decorated with a smile that further twists the blade of deceit in my own gut.

This was an example of a simple situation where honesty can go unheard, where laziness or ineptitude rules over truth, and becoming honest falls further down the ladder of suitalbe deceit.

If we cant be honest in this scenario, how difficult is it to be an honest person?

Do we think its ok to be dishonest in this situation?

What are the knock-on effects of dishonesty at this level......to ourselves as individuals, and further to society as a whole in the longer term?

d.
....the heart only whispers, be still and listen....
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Re: The Golden Rule

Postby mirjana » Mon Sep 27, 2010 12:43 am

This is very interesting question and very good example to think more about it.
You are right. If we chose not to be honest in such scenario, can you imagine how far it can go?
Then I have some thoughts about kindness. How honesty you have taken as an example go with an act of kindness? I think that the problem is how people understand the meaning of both these words, so that being kind very often turns to be just a kind of an excuse for not to be honest.
=0)
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Re: The Golden Rule

Postby Sabina » Wed Sep 29, 2010 8:12 pm

Dermot,
I'll get back to this topic, as I naturally have more to say, but I had to point out something about the Golden Rule.

    2. Mirjana already pointed out the new World News section on DS and the first handpicked article therein. An additional piece of info in regards to the Golden Rule... Only about half of the questioned people knew that the Golden Rule is not one of the Ten Commandments.
    B0)
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Re: The Golden Rule

Postby Jade » Wed Sep 29, 2010 8:27 pm

Hello Dermot, I don't understand.
Why can't you politely answer the waitress that the coffee wasn't so good, if that was the case?
I hope you don't mind my question, but I don't understand.

Being kind is important, but lieing is never a kindness. Not even a small "white lie".
Or maybe I didn't understand the scenario. In that case I would appreciate a clarification.
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Re: The Golden Rule

Postby dermot » Wed Sep 29, 2010 9:52 pm

Hi Jade, its possible that my example does not translate properly outside of my own culture/ country.
Where i come from we dont really complain about small things as we would not like to upset/critisise another person, even though the issue is not about 'the person'. We would rather smile and hide our disappointment in this scenario, that is why i used this example......on mature reflection it is too 'Irish' to work.

Of course it should be easy to say the coffee was not good, that would help the cafe owner in that he could choose to provide better coffee etc.

Sorry for the wishy washy example!
....the heart only whispers, be still and listen....
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Re: The Golden Rule

Postby Jade » Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:08 pm

Hey, no problem, and thank you for clarifying!

A part of your post reminded me of something though, you wrote:
"This was an example of a simple situation where honesty can go unheard, where laziness or ineptitude rules over truth, and becoming honest falls further down the ladder of suitalbe deceit."

Laziness is the keyword in this case.
I have this friend, and he is so lazy, that when you ask him about his opinion on almost anything, he is simply going to tell you what he thinks you want to hear, and so avoid a real thought exchange.
The Golden Rule?
I think not...
What to do with such people? Ignore? Avoid?
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Re: The Golden Rule

Postby Sabina » Thu Sep 30, 2010 5:37 pm

Dear Dermot,
Herein follows my reply to your opening post.

Swallowing frustration is a dangerous hobby, I think.
Furthermore, I think that treating others as you want to be treated is quite doable.

Here is a little story.... quite close to my heart actually....

Let's say I trade books with a relative. I give them one of mine, they give me one of theirs. We are to read and then return them.
Then something happens in the months to come.
Indoctrination and lies by a third party... I find out it has been going on for years... I understand why the third party does it... because they are sad, pitiful and lonely... because they feel rejected by me... but my relative should know better, I am thinking...
My relative will ask me, I think to myself, and they will certainly not simply believe whatever they are told by someone else about me.
What kind of relationship do we have if they don't even ask me?

I am mistaken.
My relative does believe the third party, which they know much much shorter than me, and my relative doesn't ask me any questions, instead they only attack.
It all boils down to a small petty argument in which I am told that I should do something specific "if I care".
I explain that I do care, very much, and can and do show that in many ways, but that doing that "something", that doing that one specific thing, goes against my character and nature.
That I could now say "I promise I will try harder", but that in all honesty I cannot really give such a promise and mean it wholeheartedly. That making such a promise would therefore be a lie.

In response I am told that in that case we cannot have a relationship.
Slap, bang!
Wow...

It hurts, a lot, but I get over it... slowly, gradually...

Several years later I get a letter from the relative.
They want their book back.

They want their book back!?
Seriously?

Years have gone by, and they write to ask for a book.

They are not mentioning the book they got from me.
No. The story now, is that they loaned me a book, and would like it back. It was a gift from someone, they say.
I could give it to this person or that person and they would pass it on to them.

I replied. Sure, I'll send your book through "so and so". Greetings.

You see, to me, this relative's behavior is sad and pitiful. To write years later, and only ask for a book, their book, when they also have one of mine?
I wouldn't do that if they had ten of my books!
However, to them this was ok, obviously... and the book is not important enough to make a fuss over it, as far as I am concerned, so.... they'll get it back and feel.. what? Joy? Happiness?
I doubt it...

I will feel good though. I do.

Being honest is the only way. Honest and kind, because there is no need to be cruel. Sometimes, in the worst case scenario, that can cause people to shut doors, as my relative did, but that is their choice.
Treating others with kindness is extremely important, and you know what?
Being honest is a part of being kind. Honesty is an essential element of kindness.
Without honesty, a kindness isn't really a kindness, because it's not real. So it's a fake pleasantry at best. Nothing kind about that.
"Whether You believe you can, or you can't, you are right."
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Re: The Golden Rule

Postby dermot » Thu Sep 30, 2010 6:43 pm

Yeah Sabina, i can empathise fully!

I have had something similar in my life. Someone came into my family through marriage and proceeded to create an identity for themselves within that group. Sadly, to do this they felt it necessary to undermine others, resulting in them being isolated though misinformation/lies.

It saddens me that 'good people' can be hoodwinked all too easily, believeing well dressed lies told by a person blessed with 'acting skills', which can take credence in the short term over truth.

Thankfully when truth is all that matters its ok to wait for the tangle of lies to unravel, getting caught up in the drama just prolongs its life time i think.

Detachment is wonderful, the ability to recognise truth and allow it to be just that is a salve for the soul.

Thank you for your story.........
d.
....the heart only whispers, be still and listen....
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Re: The Golden Rule

Postby Jade » Fri Oct 01, 2010 5:11 am

Dermot, I like how you wrote 'good people', with apostrophes.

Makes one wonder, how good are these people if they can be hoodwinked so easily and as a result hurt or harm others?
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Re: The Golden Rule

Postby dermot » Fri Oct 01, 2010 12:23 pm

Jade, i think a lot of people exist in what can be called a waking sleep, they dont ask questions, they seldom wonder, they exist on a surface level most of the time.

It is quite easy to be fooled in this state by those who seek to manipulate, the knock on effect on others is not even considered.

They may indeed be 'good people', but really they are wasting their lives, i have little regard for that and thats keeping my words the kind side of civil! =0X
....the heart only whispers, be still and listen....
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