The big question

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The big question

Postby Metatron » Thu Nov 17, 2011 5:02 pm

Originally I wanted to post a huge rant about ... some stuff... but then I decided I'll just let Hamlet speak for me...

To be, or not to be: that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles,
And by opposing end them? To die: to sleep;
No more; and by a sleep to say we end
The heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks
That flesh is heir to, 'tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wish'd. To die, to sleep;
To sleep: perchance to dream: ay, there's the rub;
For in that sleep of death what dreams may come
When we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
Must give us pause: there's the respect
That makes calamity of so long life;
For who would bear the whips and scorns of time,
The oppressor's wrong, the proud man's contumely,
The pangs of despised love, the law's delay,
The insolence of office and the spurns
That patient merit of the unworthy takes,
When he himself might his quietus make
With a bare bodkin? who would fardels bear,
To grunt and sweat under a weary life,
But that the dread of something after death,
The undiscover'd country from whose bourn
No traveller returns, puzzles the will
And makes us rather bear those ills we have
Than fly to others that we know not of?
Thus conscience does make cowards of us all;
And thus the native hue of resolution
Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought,
And enterprises of great pith and moment
With this regard their currents turn awry,
And lose the name of action.
Who the hell is it you try to impress?

All you have to do is learn to care less!
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Re: The big question

Postby mirjana » Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:20 am

Metatron wrote:Originally I wanted to post a huge rant about ... some stuff... but then I decided I'll just let Hamlet speak for me...



Hi David,

Your introducing sentence shows the reason you have chosen Hamlet to speak for you. Hamlet is a symbol for uncertainty and indecisive behavior.
As he is also quiet confused, I am curious why you are confused or uncertain; indecisive about what?
As Hamlet is also a character who things more than he undertakes something, does it mean that you are in such a state of mind? His dilemma about life and death is not yours I hope, but I can imagine that a kind of suffer stays behind, otherwise I couldn't imagine why you would choose Hamlet to speak for you.
My stand point is that instead to suffer in the mind it is better to change something so that you do not suffer.
What is your dilemma David? I can imagine that opening this topic shows your need for an answer. And in order to get a precise one and not Hamlet way one which is waving between imprecise things, you should be more precise when asking, which means less Hamlet.
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Re: The big question

Postby dermot » Fri Dec 02, 2011 9:12 pm

Hi David, im going with Mirjana's interpretation of where you are at...or how you are feeling. Its not a place that i have not been myself, and it is not a good place to be.

There is a saying that 'pain is inevitable', 'suffering is optional'...there is no part of this can be called trite either i believe. Pain is absolutely inevitable, the 'slings and arrows of outrageous fortune' hit us all from time to time, and sometimes several hit at once.

I know for me identifying with this pain takes me over until i remember that this pain is Not Me.
For me, identifying with pain brings similar painful experiences to mind, and therefore to the present moment, which can take me away for as long as i leave them unchallenged.

So who am i?

Am i the mind that brings such experinces to life even though they may be past or present, or am i the awareness that finds the present moment to be free of those concerns. If i stay in the present moment these imaginings have no place to hold me. Its actually impossible to feel suffering in the present moment. If we cant feel it in present moment ...where does it exist? Does it exist or is it yet another imagining with roots drawn from the past or pulled from the future.

Buddhists would find solace in the discomfort of suffering, feeling that it gives them an opportunity to challenge the pain and gain some insight which would be a positive outcome.

So the question arises...is suffering real or imagined, do we identify and give power ourselves to it, and if we can then we must also be able to take its power away. Nothing lasts forever, good or bad, everything is subject to change.

Finding the observer behind all the dramas that afflict us, choosing to detach from those dramas, knowing that they are not who we really are in truth...gives us a chance to step out of the suffering and see whats real...

Hope that addresses your post?
d.
....the heart only whispers, be still and listen....
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Re: The big question

Postby Metatron » Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:53 pm

Thank you both for your answers.

Honestly, for a couple of days I've been thinking of asking Sabina to delete this thread, simply because it wasn't something I was ready or willing to talk about. It was more of a rethorical question and definitely a sort of a vent. I was having a bad day after an unpleasant period of time and I simply needed to put this out in the open. Also, this monologue is one of the two I'll be performing on my exams in january, and is the one I've been working on the most for acting classes.

Which is why it has been running through my head so much lately. Mirjana, you both answered the question nicely, and in your own ways, although both answers were simmilar to each other.

Basically, what came across from your answers is that suffering is a point of view; that if I suffer, it is my choice and it is up to me to change that - which I do not diagree with. After all, we could say that my world would not exist without me - this observer, this person who connects the dots and loves or hates would be no more - everything is relative, everything is subjective (thanks, Einstein). The feelings of two people on the same event may differ and most likely will, so it's definitely a question of state of mind which we can alter if we try hard enough - or just try the right way.

I've mentioned in one of my posts that the only principle that I believe in (or one of the few) is that of the duality of this world: that the good cannot exist without the bad.

But what if I have gotten to a state where I simply don't care about the bad, nor the good. What if I'm simply pushed forward by life without enaging in anything that's not absolutely neccessary? What if everything has become demotivating and even that I wanted so bad has become something I'm sick of? What if I'm simply not willing to put the energy into almost anything anymore?

What then? :S
Who the hell is it you try to impress?

All you have to do is learn to care less!
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Re: The big question

Postby dermot » Sun Dec 04, 2011 1:15 am

David, you talk of duality ....maybe and I don't obviously know, but just maybe its possible that you are standing at the crossroads of duality, maybe you can see what others would love to...ie the pointlessness of living in duality. If you have two options one being led by your heart, the other leaving you with a vague feeling of emptiness, then you may be in a very good place to make a decision affecting the direction you go in...and the rest of your life one road will lead inevitably to your heart and what lies within, the other toward pleasure / pain ....duality. you talk openly, without fear, I think you are in a good place to make choices....

Nice one !
....the heart only whispers, be still and listen....
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Re: The big question

Postby Metatron » Sun Dec 04, 2011 1:43 pm

dermot wrote:David, you talk of duality ....maybe and I don't obviously know, but just maybe its possible that you are standing at the crossroads of duality, maybe you can see what others would love to...ie the pointlessness of living in duality. If you have two options one being led by your heart, the other leaving you with a vague feeling of emptiness, then you may be in a very good place to make a decision affecting the direction you go in...and the rest of your life one road will lead inevitably to your heart and what lies within, the other toward pleasure / pain ....duality. you talk openly, without fear, I think you are in a good place to make choices....

Nice one !


Maybe I didn't get what you said, or I didn't make myself very clear... What I meant by duality is that I understand that the bad that's happening in my life is neccessary for me to appreciate the good. Thus the bad is only temporary but still a neccessary part of life and that good things will usually or always follow.

Maybe the use of the word "duality" was a bit confusing but correct me if I'm wrong....
Who the hell is it you try to impress?

All you have to do is learn to care less!
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Re: The big question

Postby mirjana » Sun Dec 04, 2011 3:59 pm

I also understood you first explanation about duality as Dermot. But, you clarified it nicely and it is clear to me now. It is about the appreciation which i can't agree more. One of most beautiful and valuable experiences is if we come to the point to become aware of that what we have already have, as only then we are able to be grateful for that. Gratefulness is a graceful gift that opens door to having more of that what we need and having less of that we do not.
I am happy that your weak or down state put you in the state of appreciation for that you have.
In order to practise this feeling try to make a list of 100 things that you are grateful for having them in your life today. Yes, 100. Actually the list could be even longer. Not only that you will meet a blissful awareness of that how lucky you are, but you will somehow memorize this feeling for a longer period of time.
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