The 2012 Hoax

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Re: The 2012 Hoax

Postby GenerousGeorge » Sun Feb 07, 2010 5:12 am

PS...... I pretty much agree with Metatron on this subject.
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Re: The 2012 Hoax

Postby Sabina » Sun Feb 07, 2010 5:30 am

To David:
If you weren't going to Church at the moment... if you wouldn't be listening to any of these preachings, then how much would religion affect you?

To George:
If you talked with your children, and were to convince them that the Bible was not written by God, but by fallible humans, and you weren't going to Church, how much would religion affect you?

George, you said yourself what Sam Harris thinks of Europe in this regard, and there is religion in Europe as well, so it is obviously not necessary to exterminate religion per se. You may think that the world would be a better place without it, but in that sense it is just an opinion.
If things weren't so extreme as they are in the States according to your (and others') reports, then religion wouldn't be harmful, same as it is not harmful here. Correct?

Sabina
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Re: The 2012 Hoax

Postby Ryan » Sun Feb 07, 2010 11:59 am

George wrote:He attacked Iraq because God told him to.
Bush didn't attack Iraq because God told him to. He attacked Iraq because everyone around him told him to. George Bush was a puppet he didn't control anything and he sure wouldn't be allowed to push "The Red Button". You think there is a big red button embedded in the night stand of the President's bed? All he has to do is get a message from God that it is time to once again cleanse the Earth, wake up in a cold sweat and just push the button without consultation and at least one other person present??

Give me a break, George Bush Sr. controlled the US behind a man with Alzheimer's for at least one term. You remember the whole Iran Contra hearing (Oliver North and all)? They got Reagan up in front of the committee asking about his signature on this, his signature on that, what he did about this and that, and Reagan said the whole time.... "I... I... don't recall... I... I... don't remember...". You darn right he didn't, he had Alzheimer's! Bush would put a piece of paper down in front of him and he would sign it without knowing what it was, and the could have told him anything and he would have forgotten what they had told him... Bush's idiot son got put in office and you think he was in control?? He was a mask, a charade, a puppet... one that would carry the weight all the BS that was pulled under his administration. Nobody attacked Iran for anything less than Oil. How many things do you think happen without the presidents knowledge? "It's better you don't know that way you don't lie about anything...".

And I know for a fact that the war(s) in Yugoslavia were not religion motivated. My wife is Serbian, her mother is Serbian, and her father is Bosnian. I have stood witness to many a conversation regarding that mess.

I know exactly what is is like in Texas when you "mess up"... I couldn't find a job in the town I grew up in because I was such a sinner. I know how it is... so I moved... and let them "bear witness upon one another". However, in Austin it was completely different...maybe it had mostly to do with that it is a college town and built for the youth and therefore less judgmental... I don't know. And I know that there are tons of small business owners that aren't Christian. Most hotel owners in Texas are Indian. I also know it's not that you are not a Christian, it simply the fact that you don't "cause waves". If you "know your place"... If a person is wise in ...at least in the bible belt... he/she will simply keep their opinions about religion to themselves because they know they won't accomplish anything but harming themselves by speaking out. It would be similar to going back to 1965 and entering a room that was packed full of black panther party members and to start condemning the abolition of slavery. Not very wise...

But it's Ok George, you can trade one book's nonsense for another but it is a simple tool just like the others... the more gaps, breaks and canyons that can be created between the people of a nation (or the world) the more control they have. Sam Harris doesn't just talk about Christians... he puts Christians and Muslims in the same boat. He doesn't just help create a rift between you and Christians he helps build a discrimination against Muslims as well. That's not Love... that is a promotion of hate and I don't care what your reasons, hate is the quickest way to war and never right.
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Re: The 2012 Hoax

Postby Metatron » Sun Feb 07, 2010 12:08 pm

Sabina wrote:To David:
If you weren't going to Church at the moment... if you wouldn't be listening to any of these preachings, then how much would religion affect you?


Well, it wouldn't, but that's what I am saying. It is kept low by the government.

But I guess the fact that thousands of gay kids are death scared to come out to their parents, or are even "disowned" by their parents after coming out is perfectly fine?

If things weren't so extreme as they are in the States according to your (and others') reports, then religion wouldn't be harmful, same as it is not harmful here. Correct?


Well, if the nuclear bombs weren't freakin' dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki they wouldn't have been harmful either, right?

What about the Crusades? Crusaders were told they would be freed from alltheir sins if they killed a bunch of Muslims.
Who the hell is it you try to impress?

All you have to do is learn to care less!
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Re: The 2012 Hoax

Postby Sabina » Sun Feb 07, 2010 4:14 pm

Metatron wrote:Well, if the nuclear bombs weren't freakin' dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki they wouldn't have been harmful either, right?

Yes, they would still be harmful.
So you are comparing Christians to nuclear bombs?
They should all be dismantled because otherwise each of them might go off and destroy milions of people?
Or are you comparing nuclear bombs to the book/the Bible?

Metatron wrote:What about the Crusades? Crusaders were told they would be freed from alltheir sins if they killed a bunch of Muslims.

Yes, you are right. The Bible told the Crusaders to do that...
And also, nothing has changed since then, we are actually still in the Middle Ages, we are just not aware of it.
Also, you forgot to mention Hitler. He did evil things, so it must all have their origin in the Bible as well.
And never mind the Stanley Milgram experiment either, which shows what people are capable of, and that is has nothing to do with race, culture or religion.
He was probably mistaken and the book, the Bible is the actual cause for this.

80|

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Re: The 2012 Hoax

Postby Metatron » Sun Feb 07, 2010 4:53 pm

Sabina wrote:
Metatron wrote:Well, if the nuclear bombs weren't freakin' dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki they wouldn't have been harmful either, right?

Yes, they would still be harmful.
So you are comparing Christians to nuclear bombs?
They should all be dismantled because otherwise each of them might go off and destroy milions of people?
Or are you comparing nuclear bombs to the book/the Bible?


I am comparing the ideology and thus the Bible to a nuclear bomb, yes. Dangerous thoughts are always more destructive than weapons, because it's thoughts that weapons are born from.

Yes, you are right. The Bible told the Crusaders to do that...
And also, nothing has changed since then, we are actually still in the Middle Ages, we are just not aware of it.
Also, you forgot to mention Hitler. He did evil things, so it must all have their origin in the Bible as well.
And never mind the Stanley Milgram experiment either, which shows what people are capable of, and that is has nothing to do with race, culture or religion.
He was probably mistaken and the book, the Bible is the actual cause for this.


Please don't put words in my mouth, I have never said that Christianity was the cause of every single war in history. This certainly isn't the case, but the crusades are a good example of what it is capable of. And you cannot turn a blind eye to that.
Who the hell is it you try to impress?

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Re: The 2012 Hoax

Postby Sabina » Sun Feb 07, 2010 5:21 pm

The crusades are a good example of what humans are capable of. So are a million other things.
If all the Christians were liberal Christians you wouldn't have a problem with Christianity, and that should make you think.
David, radical Atheism comes dangerously close to fundamental Christianity.
Bitter people become radicals, and nothing good grows out of hate and bitterness.

Sabina
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Re: The 2012 Hoax

Postby Metatron » Sun Feb 07, 2010 5:25 pm

Sabina wrote:The crusades are a good example of what humans are capable of. So are a million other things.
If all the Christians were liberal Christians you wouldn't have a problem with Christianity, and that should make you think.
David, radical Atheism comes dangerously close to fundamental Christianity.
Bitter people become radicals, and nothing good grows out of hate and bitterness.

Sabina


Since when am I a radical atheist? We are debating here. I go to church, I have several priest friends, I go to christian camps, even though that means going to masses every day during that week, Last week I've been to a Christian ball... am I missing something here? My best friend ever is Christian and we rarely talk about the subject. There is quite a bit of a difference between atheism and antitheism Sabina, you're attacking a straw man here.
Who the hell is it you try to impress?

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Re: The 2012 Hoax

Postby Sabina » Sun Feb 07, 2010 5:38 pm

80|
I was attacking you?

=0X

Ok, not yet.
I basically think that if you (as in you, or George or anyone) wouldn't actually go to Church, and to Christian gatherings like those you mentioned, then you wouldn't really have a problem with Christianity, and especially not with an old book.

Do you see that as a possibility?

Ok, now.
=0X
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Re: The 2012 Hoax

Postby Metatron » Sun Feb 07, 2010 6:50 pm

Sabina wrote:80|
I was attacking you?

=0X

Ok, not yet.
I basically think that if you (as in you, or George or anyone) wouldn't actually go to Church, and to Christian gatherings like those you mentioned, then you wouldn't really have a problem with Christianity, and especially not with an old book.

Do you see that as a possibility?

Ok, now.
=0X


I'd be very happy to ask a person from another forum to come over and tell you his viewpoint, I know for a fact he doesn't go to church and is a lot more passionate about his atheism.

I don't see it as a possibility.

I can have a problem with something that is not affecting me directly. I can have a problem with every kind of discrimination, murder, crime, war, everything that I don't consider right :)
Who the hell is it you try to impress?

All you have to do is learn to care less!
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