That 'Dirty' Word

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Re: That 'Dirty' Word

Postby mirjana » Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:49 pm

Sex without obligation...or emotional charge...or long term commitment...
As long as sex is connected with emotional charge and passion (as I cannot imagine sex as only physical activity and relaxation) it is ok. Expectations of long term commitment are not necessary needed in order to have pleasure of this way of communication between two people. There are so many relationships where love, passion and sex are there and it is known from the beginning that there is no chance for long term commitment.
The only thing that matters is that two people are together because they are connected emotionally and physically. It should never be an obligation regardless of that what kind of relationship it is, including marriage. It is each time a contract of two people who are ready and need intimacy contact.
Personally I think that sex is a cosmic energy that transforms one from within when it is practice with someone we love, feel physically close and feeling intimacy. Intimacy is maybe the most important. With this one courageously opens all personal chaos and vulnerability without fear to lose anything, including integrity. When this, which is intimacy, happens, as a natural and not pretentious part of love, sex is the most beautiful uniting energy.


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Re: That 'Dirty' Word

Postby Sabina » Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:57 pm

Mirjana wrote:It should never be an obligation regardless of that what kind of relationship it is, including marriage.

I don't think the question is whether sex should be an obligation. 80|
The question is rather what if there was no marriage at all. What if we never heard of that concept.
Why or how would we come to develop it?
What would be the reason?

If you consider marriage historically, the reasons aren't ethereal nor sublime.
They are very practical.
When we talk of sex though, we don't talk about its practicality though, do we?
So, something seems to be off there.

What is off and why?
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Re: That 'Dirty' Word

Postby dermot » Thu Feb 25, 2010 11:29 pm

I dont know where this is going, i am just wondering....
Sabina said the reasons for marriage arent ethereal or sublime historically.

Thats exactly the point is'nt it?
Marriage was ownership, an exchange of vows leading to an agreement - to not do this , not do that.

If that Agreement had not been made between man and woman, what would have happened?

Its kind of amazing to think that society arranged for sexuality to be governed as an act within marriage primarily, dont you think?
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Re: That 'Dirty' Word

Postby Ryan » Fri Feb 26, 2010 12:21 am

Marriage and sex came hand in hand with society because it was deemed the proper environment in which to raise children. Sex being the means to make children, marriage being the institution within the child is to have the best chances of developing, physically, mentally, and emotionally as a healthy individual. The contract of marriage was to force the two adults who entered into this union to stick together and do "right" unto one another for the sake of the child(ren). As I say... the institution of marriage, along with sex, has been deformed in the mean time and have become simply another one of those completely self absorbed things that are good until their not and then we move on... we as a species tend towards sucking what is "good" out of things and then moving on when they are no longer convenient and interesting.

I believe that in a healthy and natural way of living, marriage is not needed...but with so many other things society has had to make laws and conditions to try and keep the masses on "the right track". "You must wear a seat belt"... "You are not supposed to kill another person because he looked at you funny"... "You cannot lock your child in an old refrigerator because it is being too loud"...

My thoughts... people want to talk about nudity and sex as being completely natural things and they shouldn't be hidden and deemed as this or that... my argument is that there is very little about humans' existence these days that are natural... and as far as nudity and sex are concerned when people are having this enlarged and that reduced, and a trim here or a tuck there, which is far from natural that it is ridiculous to bring in the whole "natural" approach and it is nothing but shameful and contaminated with lies, self loathing, insecurities, self mutilation... and the list goes on... when we as a species can start living more naturally everything else will fall in place but until that time it is a perversion not natural.
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Re: That 'Dirty' Word

Postby Sabina » Fri Feb 26, 2010 12:38 am

Ah Ryan... how can I debate you on this... =0/
Even in a "spirited debate" forum... lol
Everything you say is true. I just prefer to sometimes forget in how many twisted (unnatural) directions things have developed.
So where to begin to set things "right"? How?

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Re: That 'Dirty' Word

Postby dermot » Fri Feb 26, 2010 6:26 pm

How do we start to put things Right>...

I agree with what Ryan said, but i think its important to invoke the 'Power Of One' principal here.

So we make a decision in so far as possible not to allow ourselves to be governed by someone elses thinking, not to blindly follow convention, not to be a puppet, because there is no moral courage being shown in doing that.

Anything we do, say, or believe, should have present moment consciousness about it. If we are faced with decisions we go inside and trust intuition and our own moral sense of self

The more often we do this the better for ourselves, our children and each other. Gradually we can change the way society operates for the better.
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Re: That 'Dirty' Word

Postby Ryan » Fri Feb 26, 2010 7:13 pm

Dermot wrote:I agree with what Ryan said, but i think its important to invoke the 'Power Of One' principal here.


Are you referring to masturbation?
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Re: That 'Dirty' Word

Postby dermot » Fri Feb 26, 2010 7:32 pm

i can see where you are coming from Ryan.
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Re: That 'Dirty' Word

Postby Ryan » Fri Feb 26, 2010 8:05 pm

I am sorry... I couldn't help it...

How do we start to put things right... that's the question, right?

My usual answer... education. Real education... we as parents... we as teachers... we as people who are in control of changing the way things are done, and more importantly we as a community... that is what is healthy and natural... used to be (and still is in some cultures) the whole community raised the children. And they did so with genuine care and concern as if the child was their own... regardless as to whether or not it actually is.

You want answers... I don't have any. It will be a difficult task, and I believe the best approach is to avoid supporting the current system in anyway possible and focus more on influencing our surroundings to fit our idea of things.
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Re: That 'Dirty' Word

Postby GenerousGeorge » Fri Feb 26, 2010 8:28 pm

We could pray about it and then follow the example of the Christian private schools. 80S

Religion is part of the challenge to what you propose. When people preach that there is an invisible, omnipotent man who is constantly snooping in the windows of our bedrooms and very, very concerned about what we do in them, it is hard to arrive at a united front to bring about change.

Yes, it is the same one that knocked of that little teenage virgin....... I think Mary was her name. =0(
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