That 'Dirty' Word

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That 'Dirty' Word

Postby Sabina » Wed Feb 24, 2010 1:54 pm

=0) I am referring to sex, and no, I don't think it's a dirty word, but I see that the Friendship between Men and Women topic seems to be slowly morphing into a talk about sex, so why not start a new topic about it instead.

Sabina wrote:Maybe if everyone was honest, then going all the way in terms of soul-sharing wouldn't be such a rare commodity, and hence people wouldn't confuse it with sexual intimacy.

dermot wrote:Who cares! There are two sexes designed for good reason to be attracted to each other (this is a simplification). There are many ways to be attracted to someone else, this attraction can be a fleeting glance (best done with a smile) or a lifetimes devotion with or without fulfillment (best done with a smile).

GenerousGeorge wrote:Sex, like many compulsive things is 95% fantasy. Giving up the fantasy is a large part of arrivving at a place where a "sexless" attraction and intimate friendship is possible. I'm not there myself, but seeems like a good theory......don't you think? <3

theadvertheretic wrote:Friendship is a state of mind that does cherish this act of creation. Where as the sexual-union forebodes the will to intensity the act of creation by creation itself.

dermot wrote:Ah George !....giving up , giving up, giving up. Im sorry but having been brought up in a Catholic environment, my heart rebels at the idea that we need to 'give up' to be saved.
Its far more likely to me that instead of describing sex as compulsive and 95% fantasy, it should be seen as a positive and liberating avenue of expression. I realise that the subject matter is tainted by the way we have all grown up to see it....or most of us anyway, but the problem is not with the subject its with the way its been handled by religions etc. In the Catholic idiom, Sex was portrayed as dirty, and sexual feeling as something to be hidden. No wonder then that the Church is facing child sex abuse scandals by members of the clergy on a global scale.
When you choose to put emotions in dark hiding places they become contaminated.

There. Now we can talk about sex.
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Re: That 'Dirty' Word

Postby mirjana » Wed Feb 24, 2010 2:44 pm

Clever girl you are. *KISS* Good points and wise conclusion. This subject deserves its place as this is very important if not crucial aspect of our lives.
As I think that passion/love are driving forces of sex, here is a little start with Kahlil Gibran's words about passion.

On Reason and Passion
Kahlil Gibran
Your soul is oftentimes a battlefield, upon which your reason and your judgment wage war against your passion and your appetite.
Would that I could be the peacemaker in your soul, that I might turn the discord and the rivalry of your elements into oneness and melody.
But how shall I, unless you yourselves be also the peacemakers, nay, the lovers of all your elements?


Your reason and your passion are the rudder and the sails of your seafaring soul. If either your sails or your rudder be broken, you can but toss and drift, or else be held at a standstill in mid-seas.
For reason, ruling alone, is a force confining; and passion, unattended, is a flame that burns to its own destruction.
Therefore let your soul exalt your reason to the height of passion, that it may sing;
And let it direct your passion with reason, that your passion may live through its own daily resurrection, and like the phoenix rise above its own ashes.


I would have you consider your judgment and your appetite even as you would two loved guests in your house.
Surely you would not honour one guest above the other; for he who is more mindful of one loses the love and the faith of both.


Among the hills, when you sit in the cool shade of the white poplars, sharing the peace and serenity of distant fields and meadows -- then let your heart say in silence, "God rests in reason."
And when the storm comes, and the mighty wind shakes the forest, and thunder and lightning proclaim the majesty of the sky -- then let your heart say in awe, "God moves in passion."
And since you are a breath in God's sphere, and a leaf in God's forest, you too should rest in reason and move in passion.





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Re: That 'Dirty' Word

Postby GenerousGeorge » Wed Feb 24, 2010 3:16 pm

Dermot......maybe "giving up" was not the right expression. =0/ Perhaps being WILLING to turn a compulsion over to a higher power accomplishes or facilitates something that my will power and desire to control alone cannot manage.

In some ways sex, alcohol, drugs, food, money mangemenyt etc. can be an irrational compulsion that overwhelms our sense of reason and ability to see beyond our desire to gratify the compulsion.

Sex then becomes just a physical act for gratification, alcohol gets us drunk and stupid, drugs get us high and stupid, food gets us fat and lazy, compulsively spending money gets us broke etc. etc.

In some synergystic way, just being willing to turn over a compulsion to a higher power of your own understanding (or misunderstanding) allows me to put something in proper perspective so that in a strange way, I get back what I was WILLING to give up. =0o

I say a morning prayer for God (Higher power/to whom it might concern/whatever 80S ) to give me WILLINGNESS to hear and understand his will for me today and to help me be willing to make good, caring decisions about myself and my loved ones and that I might lead by example. The result of doing that and making ego less important may help us all in some holistic way.

Putting sex in it's proper perspective is one of the more tricky compulsions that is the msot difficult to "turn over".

Anyway...."That's my story and I'm sticking to it." <3
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Re: That 'Dirty' Word

Postby Sabina » Wed Feb 24, 2010 4:04 pm

"God moves in passion."
And since you are a breath in God's sphere, and a leaf in God's forest, you too should rest in reason and move in passion.


That is so very beautiful....

__4__

I luckily returned in time to edit my post. I realized that I have to put a little more thought into this subject, so I will do that...

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Re: That 'Dirty' Word

Postby dermot » Wed Feb 24, 2010 6:14 pm

This topic is a good for debate.
Not sure about the whole 'compulsion' thing George. It would be hard to argue that sex is'nt a compulsion, but that may not stop me trying!
Maybe its a compulsion simply because we have made the whole area of sexual energy into a negative energy mind trap. I kinda wish i was around during the Summer of Love of the mid 60's, it seemed like a whole different kind of world. Yeah it was nieve and yeah it couldnt possibly last, for obvious reasons.....but while it lasted it was DIFFERENT.
The whole topic of sex has been tainted by FEAR.

Does anyone think society could have handled this area better? Could we live in a society where sex was'nt taboo, but was part of normal healthy relationships.
d.
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Re: That 'Dirty' Word

Postby Randall » Wed Feb 24, 2010 6:27 pm

Is there a difference in your mind between sex and making love?

If so, what is it?

And if there is a difference to you, does it change the way you look at this topic?
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Re: That 'Dirty' Word

Postby Sabina » Wed Feb 24, 2010 6:36 pm

Ha! :)
Nice question Randall.
In my mind there is no difference, other than possibly a difference in style, but not in meaning.

What if sex as a compulsion is only a possibility because of its unnatural treatment.
Kind of like what Dermot said:
"When you choose to put emotions in dark hiding places they become contaminated."

The question then is... what is a natural treatment, or a natural way?

Dermot wrote:Does anyone think society could have handled this area better? Could we live in a society where sex was'nt taboo, but was part of normal healthy relationships.

Let's first be clear on what makes it a taboo in the first place. People do talk about it.. so it's obviously not a taboo in that sense. So do you mean the 'limitations' or 'rules' of a monogamous relationship?
Is that something that is imposed by society's standards or is it a choice? Or both?

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Re: That 'Dirty' Word

Postby dermot » Wed Feb 24, 2010 7:51 pm

I plead insanity.
George, come back - all is forgiven.
....the heart only whispers, be still and listen....
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Re: That 'Dirty' Word

Postby mirjana » Wed Feb 24, 2010 9:21 pm

Sexual intimacy and friendship are two beautiful love manifestations for the relationship between man and woman. One does not exclude the other, but we all have different experiences about that how much they interfere, stimulate or shade each other.
Sabina wrote:Maybe if everyone was honest, then going all the way in terms of soul-sharing wouldn't be such a rare commodity, and hence people wouldn't confuse it with sexual intimacy.

It is not the problem to be honest but this is again only a word, as we shall stay in our understanding more or less where we are at least at the beginning of the talk.
dermot wrote:Who cares! There are two sexes designed for good reason to be attracted to each other (this is a simplification). There are many ways to be attracted to someone else, this attraction can be a fleeting glance (best done with a smile) or a lifetimes devotion with or without fulfillment (best done with a smile).

That is also true, but this is primary, outside attraction that will or will not last. Sometimes after fulfilling this very first attraction one comes to the state of reflection that it was personal projection about that what one is longing for, more than really that what was the primary thought about that attraction. But, if that primary physical attraction shifts on the next level, then it becomes another story. That was my understanding of George’s words:
GenerousGeorge wrote:Sex, like many compulsive things is 95% fantasy. Giving up the fantasy is a large part of arriving at a place where a "sexless" attraction and intimate friendship is possible. I'm not there myself, but seem like a good theory......don't you think? <3

He is not there, as he said, but it is a nice thought. I think none of us is there, or we would not talk about this as there wouldn't be need for that. The result would be there already.
theadvertheretic wrote:Friendship is a state of mind that does cherish this act of creation. Where as the sexual-union forebodes the will to intensity the act of creation by creation itself.

It seems to be a good answer as well. Sex seems to be striving for the creation and friendship seems to be awareness about creation which is fulfilled.
dermot wrote:...
When you choose to put emotions in dark hiding places they become contaminated.

There. Now we can talk about sex.[/quote]
Yes, but for that we do not need to remind ourselves about that what was or is wrong in the sense of forming weird approach to sex, but as you said, instead we should talk about it trying to figure out what is the most natural and the same time most beautiful expression of this word.
When I said that, I came inevitably to Randall’s question:
Randall wrote:Is there a difference in your mind between sex and making love?
If so, what is it?
And if there is a difference to you, does it change the way you look at this topic?

For me this topic is about this question, as for me these two things are not separable, at least not according to my personal experience. Sex is another word for making love. It is not the word itself what matters, but what connects us personally with this word. When thinking sex I prefer to color it with my understanding rather than putting it in so many other dirty and misused connotations. And my thoughts about it are connected primary to love.
We can make dirty everything and we can see beauty in everything. It is personal choice and our approach makes a difference.


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Re: That 'Dirty' Word

Postby Sabina » Wed Feb 24, 2010 9:26 pm

Mirjana,

Even if the idea of sex is directly connected to love, that still doesn't make it simple nor clear.
Which love?
Universal love for humankind? B0)

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