Support the troops ....

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Support the troops ....

Postby ubermensch » Wed May 04, 2011 3:51 pm

It seems everyones favorites status message on a social site I belong to has something to do with supporting the troops . This frustrates me to no end. I do not support the wars in the middle east, and as cold as it sounds , I most certainly can not support people who join the military to fight in a war they must know on many levels is wrong. How can I support anyone who knowingly puts themselves and the citizens of Iraq and Afghanistan in harms way by joining the military when our country is in its 10th year of a war campaign that doesnt seem to have an end . With all that said , the U.S. government has created the perfect environment for avoiding ridicule by lashing out at those who dont support the war by saying they must not support the troops and what kind of individual can not support the people who are protecting our freedoms. Protecting our freedoms ? From what , a group of cave dwelling goat herders who dislike foreign policy against israel so they lash out at the U.S. in hopes the citizens will recognize their cause and force the government to change. Our freedoms (what little there is left) arent threatened by these men , they arent going to steal our women and take over our country. Excuse my rant , on to the question ... How would you guys oppose the war without supporting the troops and losing all credibility in the eyes of the people you are trying to change ? I hate to think some people are unreachable , but I honestly believe most of these people are . This is a very slippery slope , because a I can lose all credibility in the eyes of my peers , losing influence on other topics by confronting this one . As I write this, the saying , " pick your battles" just popped in my head , but I would really like to get some feedback.
The more I give to consciousness/awareness , the more consciousness gives to me . .... ....
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Re: Support the troops ....

Postby mirjana » Thu May 05, 2011 11:20 am

First of all I must say that I admire your approach and the whole analysis. People like you are true angels who stands for peace and freedom, not only in their countries, but on the larger scale. Actually, it is much easier for us who are far less expose to such ideology to talk about these things than for all of you who have been confronting your battles daily and with such consequences as you have described.
I think that personal example is always the best. You are just what you are and you live how you do showing that why for what and how you stand for.
When talking to others, instead to attack, as this in most cases automatically provokes opposition by those who are indoctrinated, I would talk, analyze things from the opposite site, how things are where you are(in the country), what doesn´t have anything to do with other countries and shows what is wrong at the very source.
When talking about wars, I would present other kinds of interconnection between countries what makes the whole world the better place to live.
In most cases though, when ears are not ready to hear or eyes are not ready to be open and see, you can only hope that whatever you do contributes to the future readiness to hear and see. So, you do what you think is right to be done.
What often helps are stories. People are able to better understand things on the deeper level when they listen about things from the neutral perspective.
There are also great things on internet where one can see how things in reality are, and it could be helpful to present such links and data to those who you want to address.
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Re: Support the troops ....

Postby Ryan » Thu May 05, 2011 11:26 pm

It's a tough one. Knowing how small, or even not so small, religious towns can be it is difficult to be genuinely expressive without being condemned and shunned for not conforming to the norm. Even to the point where your livelihood is affected... and it makes it even harder when you have a family that depends upon it.

I can truly sympathize with you... I have no real answers for you. The Socratic method is what pops into my head... play stupid... find out what they know... and stress their boundaries to see how open they are to learn/listen to other information. Try to show them that their only source of information is US propaganda... of course in a round about way. I know there are a number of soldiers that have come back and spoke against the war and what is going on there... Movies are good... these movies that show corruption in the police, government, military... ones that are based on true stories are good as well... you set the ground. There are different documentaries that show how there is corruption in the media... all these things generally aren't viewed as threats... therefore when they automatically open up to the possibilities of what the movie is saying. It implants a bit of doubt or skepticism in relation to the other things they would generally jump up and start saying the pledge of allegiance or waving a flag. That is if they see the connection... if not you might have to gently point it out... without pointing it out.

Of course these are forms of manipulation and brainwashing and can really only be affective with those who already have doubts but just throw up the "proud to be American" front in order to protect themselves as well... It is tough to know who you are dealing with when you get into these talks.

Look, I am not patriotic in any sense... I don't see the point. Why on Earth should I be all happy and proud of any mass of dirt on this planet? Or the government who historically shed the blood of those who were there first? I don't see anything to be proud of... not how it became a country, not what it allows to happen within its own borders nor what it is doing to those outside of its borders. There are very few countries, that I am aware of, that I can even admire in the slightest.

But I do think it is imperative, for your own sanity, that you do accept that there are people that you cannot talk about some subjects with... It is difficult... I know. And it can be severely aggravating when it is someone you think is intelligent and is capable of holding a discussion on a level higher than a child on the play ground arguing which super hero can beat up which super hero. The hardest thing is remembering that you cannot talk to that person about that subject... that it would be better to go pee on an electrical outlet... It is a bit of a let down to know that you cannot genuinely share your thoughts with them... but what else can you do?
=0/
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Re: Support the troops ....

Postby Rachel » Tue May 10, 2011 10:39 am

Can one ever actually another person?

I do hope you find some peace on this. xo
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Re: Support the troops ....

Postby ubermensch » Fri Jun 10, 2011 10:13 pm

Somehow I missed these posts . Very good advice , Im going to check out the socratic method after I leave here . Im thinking that peeing on an electrical socket, and the energy I would use to bring clarity too someone elses mind, both would be a waste . Especially after what I have learned in the last 24 hours about urine . You understand the small midwestern american town better than most. Its crazy frustrating at times to see people identify so wholly with these ideas that it becomes the lens they see the world with, and I have to remind myself this somehow gives them comfort and distracts them from things they cant otherwise perceive or psychological pain they can not confront. Big thanks for the response .
The more I give to consciousness/awareness , the more consciousness gives to me . .... ....
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Things I like: reading , learning , yoga ,chess and chess problems , lifting weights, becoming a better person physically and mentally , meditation, world religions
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