Sufi Soul

Experiences, questions and discussions on various aspects of mysticism, psychic abilities and psionics.

Re: Sufi Soul

Postby Sabina » Sat Oct 09, 2010 1:31 pm

Not to expect anything is one thing, but what is the problem with using something one is freely given?

Why didn't she use the onion that the bird dropped...?
Onions are very healthy and a gift of nature.
What kind of teaching is that? To waste what one is given or what? 80|
"Whether You believe you can, or you can't, you are right."
User avatar
Sabina
 
Posts: 1752
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2009 7:11 am
Location: Vienna, Austria
Personality: Ambivert
Favorite book: Confession by Tolstoy + Chess novel by Zweig
Favorite movie: Matrix + Baraka
Things I like: the arts, free thinkers, creativity, passion, intelligence, honesty
State of Mind or Tendency: Artistic
Kudos: 61

Re: Sufi Soul

Postby mirjana » Sat Oct 09, 2010 1:51 pm

My understanding goes along with the Sufi idea that God is not there to provide us simple, daily things.
Therefore, this story is an illustration for this. We can discuss if we like it or not, but it is simply like this as a teaching.
She definitely didn’t refuse the use of onion in general. Actually it was one of ingredients for the meal she was preparing with her maid. My understanding goes that she wanted to stay faithful to her vow not to ask anything (borrow) except from God. And when accidently happened that the bird dropped it, she didn’t want to put that action in correlation with God fulfilling existential (lower) needs, which belong to the personal striving in life. She simply followed that Sufi idea of the time and it has nothing to do with rejection of onion as a healthy gift of nature.
Today, synchronicity is the whole line of New Age teaching which is still not generally accepted as self-understanding.
Personally, I do believe in synchronicity and try to “read” and “understand” things that happen in such manner.
User avatar
mirjana
 
Posts: 1614
Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 4:09 pm
State of Mind or Tendency: Inspired
Kudos: 48

Re: Sufi Soul

Postby Sabina » Sat Oct 09, 2010 2:36 pm

mirjana wrote:My understanding goes along with the Sufi idea that God is not there to provide us simple, daily things.

I see.
Who provided all the simple things? Who provided everything according to the Sufi idea?

mirjana wrote:We can discuss if we like it or not, but it is simply like this as a teaching.

Well, this being a discussion forum, and me having asked a question or two, I suppose discussing it was the idea.
=0/
"Whether You believe you can, or you can't, you are right."
User avatar
Sabina
 
Posts: 1752
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2009 7:11 am
Location: Vienna, Austria
Personality: Ambivert
Favorite book: Confession by Tolstoy + Chess novel by Zweig
Favorite movie: Matrix + Baraka
Things I like: the arts, free thinkers, creativity, passion, intelligence, honesty
State of Mind or Tendency: Artistic
Kudos: 61

Re: Sufi Soul

Postby mirjana » Sat Oct 09, 2010 3:31 pm

Of course that we can discuss anything if we decide like that. Actually we can start discussing Sufism and telling our personal opinion about this, or any other teaching from the nice list of teachings we have here in DS http://www.deepspirits.com/spirituality/
I am not a Sufi myself or an extraordinary expert for Sufism. There are things I like in this teaching and therefore I tried to learn a bit more and it resulted in materials I have previously presented here in this forum. The idea to write about this Sufi woman came as a result of my research about women artist in Middle Age and earlier and I crossed some information about Rabi’a al-‘Adawiyya. For me it was interesting as information about the first Sufi woman and I decided to post one new information in the topic about Sufism.
These are verses from Sufi movie Bab'Aziz , already quoted in this topic:
The people of this world are like the three butterflies
in front of a candle's flame.

The first one went closer and said:
I know about love.

The second one touched the flame
lightly with his wings and said:
I know how love's fire can burn.

The third one threw himself into the heart of the flame
and was consumed. He alone knows what true love is.

It goes well with Sufi teaching to go beyond the eye of nature. They do not take external world and its logic as their starting point. Heart and not mind is the center of their interest because heart starts life in this existence and it closes it as well, like the symbol of the beginning and the end.
So, everything from the nature is only to be borrowed as it cannot be taken with at the end. According to that, as the quoted poem said, we make choices that are very different, from just philosophical, over sporadically experience to the dedication which becomes how you live the life.
I put her answer about onion into the frame of this interpretation. It is like not only taking it as it comes, but transcending by choice.
User avatar
mirjana
 
Posts: 1614
Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 4:09 pm
State of Mind or Tendency: Inspired
Kudos: 48

Re: Sufi Soul

Postby Sabina » Sat Oct 09, 2010 4:18 pm

Mirjana.. =0)

The heart and mind both play a role, and the importance of wisdom is one of the primary spiritual beliefs of Sufism ("Wisdom is the true religion"). In fact, none of the beliefs of Sufism seem to support this story, especially, or at least, not as a teaching. It rather reminds of the Sufi stories with Mulla Nasruddin, which are funny or silly in nature... I simply wouldn't say that the story illustrates any teaching, because if you then try to explain what teaching it illustrates, it's circular... as it doesn't illustrate anything sensible in my opinion.

Unless.... Sufism was indeed more nonsensical and "mysterious" in the past (kind of like the "I don't know, it's a mystery!" line from the "Shakespeare in Love" movie), but has developed over time to include some logic? Humor doesn't always have to be logical, and humor as well as a certain lightness of being seem to be an undercore of Sufism.

It is pure speculation of course and speculating doesn't harm anything as long as it is clear that we are speculating.

Does mysticism have to contradict logic? Is that what makes it "mystical"?

Mysticism is defined as follows....
    1. the beliefs, ideas, or mode of thought of mystics.
    2. a doctrine of an immediate spiritual intuition of truths believed to transcend ordinary understanding, or of a direct, intimate union of the soul with god through contemplation or ecstasy.
    3. obscure thought or speculation.

Interesting.... "speculation".
So by speculating in my reply to you I am being mystical?
Or am I being too logical and therefore not obscure enough?
"Whether You believe you can, or you can't, you are right."
User avatar
Sabina
 
Posts: 1752
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2009 7:11 am
Location: Vienna, Austria
Personality: Ambivert
Favorite book: Confession by Tolstoy + Chess novel by Zweig
Favorite movie: Matrix + Baraka
Things I like: the arts, free thinkers, creativity, passion, intelligence, honesty
State of Mind or Tendency: Artistic
Kudos: 61

Re: Sufi Soul

Postby mirjana » Sat Oct 09, 2010 5:15 pm

Just by your quote about mysticism, being logical is definitely not mystical, or?

As about heart and mind, it is not me who says that the preference of Sufism is heart.
Words like: spiritual intuition, transcending ordinary understanding, and direct intimate union of the soul with god, contemplation and ecstasy, obscure thought...all these seem far away from logic to me.

Are you mystical or not obscure enough with your replies, I am not able to say. Still, I shall leave some time to my heart to digest these questions. Maybe some illuminative and mystical answer will come out.

80S
User avatar
mirjana
 
Posts: 1614
Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 4:09 pm
State of Mind or Tendency: Inspired
Kudos: 48

Re: Sufi Soul

Postby Ryan » Sun Oct 10, 2010 9:51 am

Yeah... Ok... I don't get the story either... I mean, isn't everything a gift from God? Whether it is an onion out of the ground, if it falls from a bird flying overhead, or it comes from the neighbor's hand? To me it would seem that God provides everything we need, not necessarily everything we want, and it is up to us to accept it or reject it... in the story's case the onion was rejected in favor of a stubborn promise of their own making...? Anyway... I cannot understand how God doesn't provide us with daily things... I thought everything existed because of God...
[R] If you don't understand something I said or why I said it... ask me.
If you don't want to understand something I said or why I said it... tell me.
User avatar
Ryan
 
Posts: 709
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2009 7:54 pm
Location: Vienna, Austria
Personality: Ambivert
Favorite book: no favorite book but favorite stories
Favorite movie: the Star Wars saga
Things I like: My family, nature, movies, games, music... more later
State of Mind or Tendency: Inspired
Kudos: 50

Re: Sufi Soul

Postby Jade » Mon Oct 25, 2010 2:37 pm

Ryan wrote:...I thought everything existed because of God...

Not according to atheists. ;0)
Different strokes for different folks maybe?
Image
    "A Jade stone is useless before it is processed;
    a man is good-for-nothing until he is educated."

    Chinese proverb
User avatar
Jade
 
Posts: 64
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2010 8:55 pm
Personality: Ambivert
State of Mind or Tendency: Inspired
Kudos: 7

Re: Sufi Soul

Postby profdrfeelgood » Fri Dec 17, 2010 1:39 pm

786



HU
Prof. Dr. Feelgood
User avatar
profdrfeelgood
 
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 3:35 pm
Location: Island of Bornholm in Denmark sometimes
Personality: Extrovert
Favorite book: .
Favorite movie: .
Things I like: .
State of Mind or Tendency: Neutral
Kudos: 2

Previous

Return to Mysticism

Who is online

Registered users: No registered users

cron
StumbleUpon Digg Delicious Reddit Yahoo Google Live Facebook Twitter MySpace