Oh no, it's feminism!

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Oh no, it's feminism!

Postby Sabina » Sat Aug 07, 2010 7:08 pm


"In my heart, I think a woman has two choices:
Either she's a feminist or a masochist."
~ Gloria Steinem


__14__
Just some random facts... food for thought, maybe?
I would definitely like to hear your thoughts, or if you have any other trivia to add, please do.
__1__


    The ancient Egyptians viewed men and women, including people from all social classes except slaves, as essentially equal under the law, and even the lowliest peasant was entitled to petition the vizier and his court for redress. Both men and women had the right to own and sell property, make contracts, marry and divorce, receive inheritance, and pursue legal disputes in court.

Friedrich Engels, among others studying historical groups, formed the notion that some contemporary primitive peoples did not grasp the link between sexual intercourse and pregnancy.
Research indicated that sexual intercourse occurred from early ages and pregnancy only occurred much later, seemingly unrelated to the sexual activity. He proposed that these cultures had no clear notion of paternity, according to this hypothesis; women produced children mysteriously, without necessary links to the man or men with whom they had sex. When realization of paternity occurred, according to the hypothesis, men acted to claim a power to monopolize women and claim their offspring as possessions and patriarchy began.

    Austrian writer Bertha Diener, also known by her American pseudonym as Helen Diner, wrote Mothers and Amazons (1930) which was the first work to focus on women's cultural history. She is regarded as a classic of feminist matriarchal study. Her view is that in the past all human societies were matriarchal, then, at some point, most shifted to patriarchal and degenerated.

Have you ever heard of cyberfeminism?
Put simply cyberfeminism refers to feminism(s) applied to and/or performed in cyberspace. An authoritative definition of cyberfeminism is difficult to find in written works due to the fact that early cyberfeminists deliberately evaded a rigid elucidation. At the first international cyberfeminist conference, delegates avoided stating what cyberfeminism was and instead devised with 100 anti-theses and defined what cyberfeminism was not.

Although there was a surge of art and research happening in the cyberfeminist field in the late nineties, that surge has subsided and many may conclude we are living in a post-cyberfeminist world (wide web). This backlash is evident in real-world feminism also, with many young women believing that feminism is either unattractive or that it has succeeded in providing equality for the sexes and is no longer needed.
B0)
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Re: Oh no, it's feminism!

Postby dermot » Sat Aug 07, 2010 9:09 pm

Sabina wrote: At the first international cyberfeminist conference


Sabina, the above quote from your post would seem to indicate, certainly to me at least, that there may have been more than ONE International cyberfeminist conference???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Im sorry, but my mind stops there!11111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111
....the heart only whispers, be still and listen....
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Re: Oh no, it's feminism!

Postby Sabina » Sat Aug 07, 2010 9:55 pm

Well, it is all information.. this and that and the other.
The cyberfeminism was a novelty to me, and so I shared. However, I am curious. Why exactly does your mind stop "there"? So what if there was more than one international cyberfeminist conference?
What does that mean for you?
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Re: Oh no, it's feminism!

Postby dermot » Sat Aug 07, 2010 10:10 pm

I suppose being a liberated man means i view all as equal....there is no other way.

To be honest, the whole idea of an international cyberfeminist conference is too hard for me to take seriously....as indeed many other fragmented interest groups promoting their vision of the 'World' virtual or otherwise would be.

Its like that scene from The Life of Brian where everybody sits around discussing which group they actually belong to and rubbishing the other groups....Peoples Front of Judea v Judean Peoples Front.

Society likes to break itself up into factions or groups, people find their identity by becoming 'one of the group', all this does is make tunnel vision the default view of the world, and takes away the need to lead an examined life.

I have heard many strange titles for groups, some are objectionable, some are pointless, some make me laugh......its ok to laugh!

Was it Groucho Marx who said he wouldnt be a member of any group that would have him as a member?
I'm with Groucho.
....the heart only whispers, be still and listen....
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Re: Oh no, it's feminism!

Postby Sabina » Sat Aug 07, 2010 10:26 pm

dermot wrote:To be honest, the whole idea of an international cyberfeminist conference is too hard for me to take seriously....as indeed many other fragmented interest groups promoting their vision of the 'World' virtual or otherwise would be.
...
Society likes to break itself up into factions or groups, people find their identity by becoming 'one of the group', all this does is make tunnel vision the default view of the world, and takes away the need to lead an examined life.

As much as it pains me to admit, I know what you mean... but (yes, there is a "but"), I can see why there would be such a group!
Generally speaking, when I hear of conferences or seminars, my mind mostly paints a certain kind of picture, and while it is not one I wish to partake in, I still don't and indeed can't condemn the group itself. Why?
That's a tough one actually...

Feminism - just the word itself could be argued in the same manner, on the same grounds.
But, the word and the movement came to develop out of a very concrete and vital need.
It was very important and a lot of good came from it.
The ending part about cyberfeminism, which actually referred to feminism was hilarious to me:
"...with many young women believing that feminism is either unattractive or that it has succeeded in providing equality for the sexes and is no longer needed."

Oh, it's "unattractive" to be a feminist? What a brilliant reason to dislike something... women who think that way often become female chauvinists... Just another piece of information.

You see, while women may officially be equal to men in most of the world, they are not! Far from it... Most of the time I don't put much thought into this, unless it touches me in one way or another, such as when I observe or witness an injustice, or see a blatant result of the supposed equality.
And so, as long as there are such things, I am much more inclined to accept goofy sounding things, such as cyberfeminists, because there is a reason why they exist.
Nobody fights for equal rights if they are already equal.
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Re: Oh no, it's feminism!

Postby dermot » Sat Aug 07, 2010 10:36 pm

Yes you are right, there was and are reasons for groups to bring consciousness to injustice and intolerance.
Feminism was/is a real issue, maybe a burning issue (?), and is still so in parts of the world.

I'm expecting it to swing the other way now, it probably has already....men demanding to be considered as non-objects etc.

I dont dismiss the utter need to address feminist issues, my heart does not (thankfully) harbour any intolerances or prejudices other than petty ones which i try to eradicate......so hence my mirth!

Remember the Eddie Vedder song.........Society?
....the heart only whispers, be still and listen....
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Re: Oh no, it's feminism!

Postby Sabina » Sat Aug 07, 2010 10:41 pm

Of course I remember "Society", and for all who don't, here it is... ;0)



Feminism was/is a real issue, maybe a burning issue (?), and is still so in parts of the world

Dermot, not just in some far away parts of the world though... also in the heart of Europe, the USA, etc., merely not to the same extent as before, or using different methods. It's probably understood, but I wanted to clarify that, just in case.
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Re: Oh no, it's feminism!

Postby mirjana » Sat Aug 07, 2010 10:52 pm

dermot wrote:...
I have heard many strange titles for groups, some are objectionable, some are pointless, some make me laugh......its ok to laugh!

Was it Groucho Marx who said he wouldn’t be a member of any group that would have him as a member?
I'm with Groucho.

Dermot,
I like this quote and understand it. I also feel very much so like being a member of a group would take something of my freedom or individuality. But, look, we are not isolated islands, we are all somehow connected be it in the groups or not. Both, you and me, Sabina and many other here are members of the own family, then we are members of DS, or a member of any group of friends that go out to have time together. If we take it like that, then being a member of any group is not a problem for itself as it is the question what is this group activity about.
Captain Watson and his crew are great group and I could imagine be part of it.
Put in that light, I agree that feminism has been historical necessity as , unfortunately, women are not treated equally as men even today, not to talk about past. Working for DS Time Machine I was again surprised that in the recent past many great women couldn’t write under their name. So, they found the only way to do it, having male pseudonym for their writings.
Today, even in the countries that are social countries there are sad statistics that man and woman at the same working place are not paid equally, just by gender.
And, yes, Sabina, about female chauvinists. Unfortunately it is also there and most probably such women who find feminism unattractive belong to such.
Of course that this world would be a great place to live when most people would think and behave like Dermot said:" I suppose being a liberated man means to view all as equal....there is no other way."
Unfortunately there is other way and this is to see certain groups of people as not equal. Therefore so much of misusing of women, kids, animal...all around the world. To spread any information that will at least help a bit to change percentage in this injustice is worth trying.
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Re: Oh no, it's feminism!

Postby theadvertheretic » Tue Aug 10, 2010 12:05 pm

femella,
from Latin did derive. The roots speaking of how genders were divided. female pertaining to the ones that had the bearing of human offsprings, my words range and resound. feminism to me is appreciating, such an equal half of mankind. Sometimes, words go far beyond their defined meanings, it becomes a web of feelings.

therefore, I romance women. they cannot be primmed and "defined". =0@
महीप

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
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Re: Oh no, it's feminism!

Postby Mel » Thu Mar 10, 2011 9:55 pm

There shouldnt be a title that reads 'Oh no, it's feminism'. Surely, womens rights should be important to everybody, and not something to say ''oh no'' about. But, I know what you mean. There is nothing like talking about it, to bring negativity your way.
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