Page 1 of 1

Not my will

PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 4:57 pm
by Agate
[Note: Feel free to substitute the Higher Power of your choice any place I use the word-name God.]

I was raised Christian, but no longer really identify as such. If nothing else, the really visible ones just make my skin crawl. Even so, just because I reject the established structure does not mean that I reject the key message. Sadly, most "christians" are not taught to least not about the words they claim to believe.

With all that said, I want to look at a one of the most-recited and least thought about bits. It's hard to visit a Christian church and not hear the Lord's Prayer. I'm focusing on a single specific line as it appears in the most common English version.

Thy will be done, on earth as it is in Heaven.

Thy will be done. I'm willing to wager that everyone has had someone say that the bad thing that just happened was God's will. That for whatever reason, He saw fit to cause a disaster. That since it's all part of God's plan, there's nothing we can do about it. They'll even cite this phrase and others like it as reasons to blame God


Yes, horrible things happen, and occasionally they are the first step toward something really good. I think that's what the platitude-mouthing pseudo-christians are trying to say when they insist that everything is God's will. But it's only part of the equation.

Thy will be done is not an expression of helplessness, or an excuse to not do anything. It is an expression of willing submission to an Entity that knows far more than we do.

Say you accidentally blunder into quicksand. Not knowing much about the stuff, you realize you're sinking, panic, and start thrashing around. That makes you sink faster, so you panic get the picture. When your guide sees you're in trouble, he's going to say something that seems counter-intuitive: Relax and stop fighting. Since quicksand is mostly water, once you stop fighting it, you can sort of float and be hauled to safe ground. So even though your own stupidity, inattention, or simple bad luck got you into that spot, trusting the leader (even when told to do something that does not make sense) will get you out of trouble.

The same goes for God. We get into "quicksand" for a host of reasons; stupidity, stubbornness, inattention, mischance. And often we panic and make things worse.

So I would suggest that rather than thinking in terms of the rather empty-feeling "Thy will be done," say "Not my will but Thine." Acknowledge that there is always more to the story than what we can see. Willingly and consciously submit.

There are times we have to walk through the fire to get where we need to be. There are times when the lessons we need to learn are brutally hard and hurt like nobody's business. There are times when we make choices that take us off our path and lead to misfortune and distress. And THAT is when we need to stop fighting. Not my will but Thine

Re: Not my will

PostPosted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 9:54 am
by Ryan
Hmmm... I get what you are saying but it is not so simple to say that when people excuse bad things as God's will that it is isolated to that bad thing.

If you consider any circumstance, to any action there is a positive, negative, and neutral reaction... just because one only sees the negative doesn't mean there isn't a more important positive as a result.

If I take my own life into consideration I am extremely thankful for all the negative experiences in my life... equally thankful as I am for the positive ones. It is together that they have shaped who I am and where I am in life. However, at those moments when the negative experience is happening, or has just happened, it seems like the worst thing ever. This is, in my opinion, where the "Thy will be done" part comes in. To comfort those who cannot see things more clearly in those moments or in general.

I am not a religious person... God, as defined by most, I do not believe in. However, I also find truth in a number of religions' "scriptures"... if you will. I believe religions' and their scriptures to be a form of life's philosophy. The philosophical poem called the Lord's prayer has a bit of truth and would be more a chant to take advantage of the laws of attraction... and the terms of endearment at the beginning are simply a means of making the chant more powerful.

I think that if you go through life doing that which you honestly feel and believe to be the "right" thing, all the "bad" things that happen along the way are part of achieving the goals you set. Maybe even a form of a universal test... kind of like "how bad do you want it?". If you change your direction at the first sign of trouble, then obviously you don't want it very badly and therefore it won't happen. But if you keep pushing on and taking the "bad" as it is "intended" you will eventually profit from the positive of the negative.

Like with your current endeavor... converting from carnivore to herbivore... cravings, peer pressure, accusations of being flighty, or just simply being misunderstood... negative. Endure it, learn from it, and keep your path and you will reach your goal... the strength you will develop from enduring the social reactions to your goals will aid you in the overcoming the physical manifestations of refusing meat... positive. God's will from a religious stand point..."who knows why it is good... God knows"...

I don't excuse anything, I just know that not all of us are the same... some do not have the self confidence to believe in the power within themselves to affect their lives and religion was originally meant to help those people get on a more positive path. In the meantime I believe religion has take many turns for the worse and is no longer a means with which one can help themselves overcome short comings but instead comfort them for their short comings and keep them suppressed. Scriptures taken out of context, words bent, mistranslated, and misused in order to create a means by which the masses can be controlled.

Re: Not my will

PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 10:37 am
by crystaldart
There is a very good logical explanation for this in quantum physic. Its a beautiful one.
(Borrowed the first three para from the work of Dr.Alex Paterson. I belief it explains nicely)

Fundamental to contemporary Quantum Theory is the notion that there is no phenomenon until it is observed. This effect is known as the 'Observer Effect'.

The implications of the 'Observer Effect' are profound because, if true, it means that before anything can manifest in the physical universe it must first be observed. Presumably observation cannot occur without the pre-existence of some sort of consciousness to do the observing. The Observer Effect clearly implies that the physical Universe is the direct result of 'consciousness'.

This notion has a striking resemblance to perennial esoteric theory which asserts that all phenomena are the result of the consciousness of a single over lighting Creative Principle or the Mind of God.

So the blue print of an event is molded even before it materialize. Here the question is, can we influence how this blueprint is developed in this ‘conscious realm? I think its yes, we can. But it doesn’t work just by contemplating and accepting simply everything that happens to us. Instead we have work to that intention in the right method and way. The science of this effort is known as spirituality. It’s not religion, belief or philosophy. It’s pure science.

It is a very good topic. Looking forward for more inputs on this topic. Good work.
Thank you.

Re: Not my will

PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 1:25 pm
by ThePermster
Paterson (I'm pretty sure he's not a doctor) is something of a bad proponent of quantum mechanics and his assertions pulled from it are full of misnomers and misinformation. Not only that but if I remember rightly he committed the philosophy sophomore faux pas of writing on chaos, though I think he approached it from a spiritual experience angle as opposed to reasoned thought but he's still a damned fool.

The "Observer Effect" as he's coined it is actually just a bastardisation of the uncertainty principle and by no means implies that things exist in some non-physical state before being observed. In fact the majority of the "flux" which much of quantum theory refers to is a simple flaw with empiricism; you can't observe something without changing it.

Of course there is some metaphysical and phenomenological thought in this ballpark but it's rarely associated with quantum theory because of how naive and misunderstood a science it is. Even the forefathers of it's principles still live in doubt about the whole practice's validity.
Frankly I think the very firmament of quantum theory's non-spatial-but-still-somehow-spatial dimensional hierarchy is a testament to it's gross inaccuracies.

Also, on the subject of your ontological solipsism question, can you influence the physical world if it were no more than the extension of your own consciousness. There are two dominant eventualities for that train of thought, the first: a kind of collective solipsism, i.e. no. And the second: yes, but absolute belief is required. One must then reflect on the nature of absolute belief before they then consider the practicalities of "lifeworld" influence.

Re: Not my will

PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 7:44 pm
by dermot
GOD IS IN THE a line from a movie called V for Vendetta. This just came to my mind as i read this topic.
We can see things as being deeply profound needing to be viewed in great detail and debated to death, but in doing that we can get lost in the detail and miss the simplicity of it all.

I believe simply that we are all at our core Beauty, Love and Truth. When we come into contact with any of these we recognise them as they are immediately.

What happens as we grow or maybe even before we are born (reincarnation), is that we assume traits, characteristic tendencies, ways of viewing the world and our experiences which more often than not hide our true nature ie Beauty Love and Truth.
We then embark on a journey which asks us to learn how to be simple beings again, we have experiences which ask questions designed to help us unlearn.

Our awareness of ourselves dictates our 'health', wisdom being a byproduct of simplicity.