Money

What should the ideal community or society be like?
Thoughts and ideas on making the utopian idea reality.

Re: Money

Postby Randall » Thu Mar 11, 2010 10:26 pm

Talk about a condescending comment Randall.... Wow!
Bravo to you.

Here is another piece of information: What you resist persists


Sabina... it wasnt meant as a condesending comment at all. Ryan's comments were written to get a certain reaction. I chose not to go for the bait. Its funny in my bizzaro world. ;0)

This topic is out pushing buttons left and right.... I chose not to have a button here. We are all free to live our lives the way we choose. I'm not out to prove anyone wrong or discredit anyone here, just offering my perspective.
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Re: Money

Postby Sabina » Thu Mar 11, 2010 10:43 pm

Randall,

Ryan's comments were posted to explain something. That's all. Maybe you don't like his style, that is very possible. He doesn't make his words pretty or doesn't make any effort to sound wise. He just says it like he sees it, that's all... and he is quite used to being judged this way or that way for that. People like to judge and in his honesty and openness he gives them opportunity to judge him.
And they do. I have seen it enough times.

This topic may be pushing buttons left and right, but, it doesn't have to.
The topic is tricky.. ok. We can still talk about sensitive topics, we did so before. Any time anyone simply ignores someone else's argument and just repeats whatever their view is, it leads to stagnation. Nothing happens.
If what you are trying to do is to have a conversation that has a chance of giving birth to new ideas, then any reply that potentially leads to stagnation can be annoying.

Still, that doesn't have to mean that the talk ends... but it shouldn't be circular.

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Re: Money

Postby Ryan » Thu Mar 11, 2010 10:57 pm

George wrote:Thats a pretty bold statement. My first reaction is that money is a medium of exchage necessary for trade in a civilized world.

To say that it is "a means" devised by the lazy to control the enslaved masses does not sound right to me. What something is and what something is used for are two different things. "Guns don't kill people, people do."


Did you know that there once was a time when nobody owned any land? That's right... not a single parcel of it. It was free to all. Then one day a group of a few got the grand idea to say they owned the land and stick up fences this is historically referred to as "Enclosure". The people that owned this land now had to pay to live on the land and to use the land for farming or the raising of livestock. Because a person can only have so many potatoes or slabs of meat before they start to root or rot because they can't eat it all fast enough, money was demanded instead...

Also, before money, the barter system wasn't even the "norm" instead it was the gift economy, and if bartering ever did take place it was generally between total strangers or would-be enemies.

History is how I derive the "bold statement"... all these people did was take the land which those who were actually doing something for their survival as well as others in their communities in order to secure their own future and lazy life style... so says history... but what do I know? I am just some clammed up insecure individual that knows very little of anything except from his own limited point of view and experiences.


George wrote:So Ryan..... are you saying we should do away with money and if so what do you propose to replace it......or are you just saying people who use money for selfish and even evil purposes need to change......or something in between......or what?

And I didn't say what anyone should do, I said do whatever you want to do...if you want to live without money, live without money... if you don't... then don't...
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Re: Money

Postby dermot » Thu Mar 11, 2010 11:04 pm

This is not Utopia, nor will it ever be, there are two many levels of consciousness to be accomodated.
Money and the need for it, reflects kind of sadly on us all. All any of us can do is to use what we have, or need, in a considerate, and compassionate way.
I wont ever buy a gun, or take money for dubious reasons, or from dubious sources. I think using it ethically is about the best we can do.

I remember reading a book called i think 'The Travellers' or The Tourists' or something along those lines when i was a teenager.
It portrayed life for a teenager that was utopian, certainly to me at the time, and it fed into the whole idea of living the perfect life. That would mean no money, or the evil it creates.

I feel in my heart that there is a better way to live, a better way to be, and i get frustrated easily when confronted with barriers created by Man.

Methinks its for another time, but not for a moment would i give in to common convention and lose the passion for a better way to live, right now its moment to moment.
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Re: Money

Postby Alvino » Fri Mar 12, 2010 4:22 am

Sabina, I relish your inputs = insights.
I like to NOT EXPLAIN and I love, love myself a lot because
I am great at explaining to folks i do business with = relatives, especially.

LIFE IS SIMPLE meant THIS
SABINA whenever anyone works for me I ask them this ??
WHO IS THE BOSS== the correct answer is THEY ARE THE BOSS.

I meant YOU ARE THE BOSS of your NO MONEY COMMUNITY, SABINA
you DESIGN IT AS YOU WISH
u are not VIOLENT BUT if a man was the boss he would
just lock up or banish all the members who were GREEDY
in regards to your desire that ALL members do equal work
and all members share equally = thus no money is needed
just a LOT OF WORK to grow the FRIJOLES, etc.

All rules and consequences are YOURS AND YOURS alone to
create in your NO MONEY community.
First of all decide what WORK GENEROUS GEORGE must do
to obtain his share of COFFEE.
WHOOPS u are the boss so u decide what is FIRST....

this is the truth I HATE MONEY, I REALLY DO HATE MONEY
MANY tenants do not pay me for two months before I
take action and I could rent some homes for about 800 or
easy 750 but I ask about 600 620 and one 650 that is 6 bedrooms
but I DO get TONS of monthly rent from USA housing department
and I HATE THIS DEPArtment for PAYING TO MUCH, way to much.
way to much to us landlords.
In it is absolutely true I hate the fact that the USA pays
Generous George and Me, way, way too much retirement
pay WE DO NOT DESERVE IT AT ALL because
we were PAID to be shot at and we were paid a lot for Peace
time duty , also.
I love the fact you INTRODUCED THIS topic SABINA =
it gave me a chance to KNOW other citizen's view of money.

when i said MONEY IS ENERGY = i seen that as a
GREAT FOUNDATION for FORMING THE the RULES/moralS/use of money
etc in your NO MONEY community.

What energy did George use to EARN the WORK of someone
that is needed for them to GET him a resupply of coffee.
Did he take out the trash or such = whisper probably not = I never do.

George, remember, I am NOT involved in deciding what you have to do
in return for THAT VITAL use of energy =resupply.
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Re: Money

Postby Randall » Fri Mar 12, 2010 6:50 am

Sabina.. I think we do have a chance to come up with something ... its slim but I do see a chance but I dont think it will come with the energy in which this topic has so far brought up.

Can we communicate from a loving standpoint? Can we stop reading negative things into posts? Can we get off the idea that some one is trying to mess us around? Can we approach it from a standpoint where we dont push each other? Can we move past the fear that includes anger, resentment, etc..?

If we can answer yes to those questions... my opinion..... we might have a chance at creating something new... something dynamic.... something that might work. Its a slim chance but a real one.

I dont think we can solve the issue of money with out solving a few other issues first.
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Re: Money

Postby Ryan » Fri Mar 12, 2010 1:02 pm

Randall wrote:Can we communicate from a loving standpoint? Can we stop reading negative things into posts? Can we get off the idea that some one is trying to mess us around? Can we approach it from a standpoint where we dont push each other? Can we move past the fear that includes anger, resentment, etc..?

Randall, I am in your face, Sabina's face, or my son's face because I love. If I didn't Love... I wouldn't say a word to you. They know that about me and they understand me and it isn't anything negative. I'll push you, shake you, and spit in your face to get a reaction because it is my experience if you are content in a world of chaos and madness nothing is ever going to change. (don't get me wrong and jump on my words and attack me for saying we live in a world of chaos... I am just presenting a worst case scenario)

Point blank...You have a problem with listening and that is your biggest problem with communication. You think that no matter how hard you try people don't understand because the method is flawed. Communication doesn't work for you because you aren't really paying attention to what people are saying and therefore when you respond you don't actually address anything they said.

Here's a little saying I try to keep in mind... hence why I am prone to ask questions rather than to jump to conclusions...
Never ASSUME anything because when you do you make an A S S out of U and M E.


You have a problem with me and the way I talk or approach a subject, that is fine... I am not here to change you or to strip your beliefs from you. I am here to discuss matters of opinion... if I see something as being flawed I will address it... however, if my way bothers you I can understand it... you are not the first person and you probably won't be the last. Just as I have done them the favor of not challenging their ideas, I can do the same for you and there won't be any hard feelings on my end at all... believe it or not...

That goes for anyone else as well... it doesn't bother me in the slightest and I would actually prefer it rather than speaking to a wall because I have better things to do with my time than to speak to a closed mind and/or ears. I give my attention to hear and respond and that is what I expect in return.

AND while I am on my soapbox I would like to say to Metatron nice argumentation and I agree with you 100%. I didn't take the time to say it before.

So, Randall, If you would like the other option... ( for me to not leave you alone )... then with the quoted statement below you seem to be getting back on track... yet I still do not think you have imagined starting a new community and how you would go about your economy...
Randall wrote:I dont think we can solve the issue of money with out solving a few other issues first.
[R] If you don't understand something I said or why I said it... ask me.
If you don't want to understand something I said or why I said it... tell me.
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Re: Money

Postby Randall » Fri Mar 12, 2010 1:49 pm

Ryan, you so busy pointing fingers and looking for something to be wrong you cant see past the end of your nose. I'm sorry for that.
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Re: Money

Postby Ryan » Fri Mar 12, 2010 6:17 pm

Randall wrote:Ryan, you so busy pointing fingers and looking for something to be wrong you cant see past the end of your nose. I'm sorry for that.


It has been explained to me that the idea behind the Randall and Ryan is to clear up such matters because they are not on topic at all... So, I have addressed this there...
[R] If you don't understand something I said or why I said it... ask me.
If you don't want to understand something I said or why I said it... tell me.
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