Money

What should the ideal community or society be like?
Thoughts and ideas on making the utopian idea reality.

Re: Money

Postby Pat » Thu Mar 11, 2010 4:56 pm

I like the oriental view of money ... it is just another form of energy . We exchange energy for energy.
The native Americans traded goods and had no need for money.

Money is just a place marker for a certain amount of what ? Energy.
Modern finances are not this simple it is all just a house of cards as we saw this past year or so.
Money has connotations of evil but it is simple a way of exchanging energy it is how w e use it and accumulate it that causes the problems.
:)
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Re: Money

Postby Ryan » Thu Mar 11, 2010 5:02 pm

Money has always been and always will be a means with which to suppress and control people. It was developed so the lazy, needy, fruitless individuals of society can rise above those enslaved masses who actually create the means for the elite few to not only survive but to prosper.
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Re: Money

Postby Sabina » Thu Mar 11, 2010 5:02 pm

"Today, nobody sees, or wishes to see, that in our time the enslavement of the majority of men is based on money taxes, levied on land and otherwise, which are collected by government from the subjects."
Leo Tolstoy


"Money has in our time completely lost that desirable significance as a representative of labour; such a significance it has only exceptionally, for as a general rule it has become a right or a possibility for exploiting the labour of others.

The dissemination of money, or credit, and of all kinds of monetary tokens more and more confirms this meaning of money. Money is the possibility or the right to exploit the labours of others. Money is a new form of slavery, which differs form the old only in being impersonal, and in freeing people from all the human relations of the slave."

Leo Tolstoy
From What Shall We Say? in the "Complete Works of Leo Tolstoy"


What do you think about this?

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Re: Money

Postby Sabina » Thu Mar 11, 2010 5:19 pm

Here is something for you to think about... food for thought...

Money is energy. Yes?
Great. Let's roll with that.
And only what we do with it matters, right?
It doesn't matter where it comes from, it doesn't matter how the accumulation of money has severely damaged the energy of millions of others... right?
It's all good....
It also doesn't matter if you live in the most aggressive country in the world...
By living in that country you are pouring money back into that country... you are supporting its economy and its policies... you are supporting the energy it spreads across the world...
It's all good...
It's just energy...
There is no good or bad energy... it's all just energy.
Anyone whose choice is that - to live there, to support it with your work and your money, anyone who does that has to explain it that way, otherwise what does it make them?

Because if it's not just energy... if it matters where it comes from and how it is accumulated, then we are in deep shit with the choices we make...
So hey, let's just give up our power, let's give up our contribution, and we'll call it all energy, and it's all good...
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Re: Money

Postby Metatron » Thu Mar 11, 2010 5:38 pm

I didn't read all of the posts here, just briefly a few of them and I noted to myself that Randall said something very similar to what I've had in mind. Money is not a negative thing, just as there are no bad words, no bad weapons... Actually, nothing inanimate can ever be bad. There is only bad intention and tools used to achieve one's goal (that's why I say thoughts stand higher than any weapon in the world). Money can and is certainly one of such tools, but it is not unique in this sense.

We can imagine what the world would be like without money and to do so, we have to consider all the different mindsets of the world. There are humans who think material wealth is more important than spiritual (shocking, I know :P), so even if money suddenly disappeared from the world (and if it didn't exist at all, someone would invent it - it has happened in the past as we all know :P ), it would not solve anything. Why? :) For the most obvious reasons... Simply put, chaos.

I am writing a fantasy novel which is based on afterlife, the Garden of Eden etc... My image of afterlife, or utopia, is that spirits are creatures who don't age, can create whatever they want out of nothing (if they know it's true nature) and thus, money is completely unnecessary. People have a crapload of time on their hands, so there is no need for violence, because everyone can get what they want.

Yeah, this is still based on material wealth.

After seeing my phone, Sabina and Ryan both know that some degree of material wealth is important to me. But hey, different people, different values :P

So, money is not really the source of people's problems. It's just what those problems are reflected upon, in reality the battle is going on in people's hands, most of us want to have more than others, money is just kind of a victim. Let's say someone throws a pebble at a vase. Who or what broke the vase? The pebble...or the one who threw it? :P If you wanna get rid of problems associated with money, get rid of people... :D
Who the hell is it you try to impress?

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Re: Money

Postby Sabina » Thu Mar 11, 2010 5:46 pm

Metatron wrote:If you wanna get rid of problems associated with money, get rid of people... :D

80|

I know there are several subjects that are intertwined... money, slavery, wars,... all that.
Any time we say something is just energy, the talk ends there.
Nothing will change.
Why should it?
It's just energy after all.
Considering the state of things in the world hearing that answer (that money is just energy) brings me to the point of despair...

Should I turn a blind eye to things just because they don't affect me personally at this moment?
How can anyone justify such an approach?

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Re: Money

Postby Metatron » Thu Mar 11, 2010 6:10 pm

Sabina wrote:Should I turn a blind eye to things just because they don't affect me personally at this moment?
How can anyone justify such an approach?

Sabina


Look, this is not about that at all. Wars, discrimination, money, all of that are problems that come out of human diversity. The simple fact is that we are not the same. The diversity of minds produces people that sooner or later will try to force their ideas on others. This produces conflict. That's why I said money is not unique in this sense. It is the same with religion, sexuality, nationalism, anything you can think of.

So if you ever tried to change the world, people would rightfully ask: why should we follow you? You may persuade them or you may not. You may say the world is not right the way it is, they may say it is. It's possible to change the world all by yourself, it's just not easy.
Who the hell is it you try to impress?

All you have to do is learn to care less!
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Re: Money

Postby Randall » Thu Mar 11, 2010 6:16 pm

There is an old saying... that is slowly begining to settle in.... S LO W L Y...lol

What you resist, persists.

Here is an energy thing ....
Negative energy..pushes things away
Positive energy... attracts things

Being against something seems to create an immediate reaction that makes what we are against stronger.

Being FOR something actually creates an atmosphere for change.

I'll put it another way.

I dont believe we can rid ourselves of fear by attacking it... I am seeing that by focusing on love it simply goes away.

Have fun everyone... off to go play a bit =0)
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Re: Money

Postby Ryan » Thu Mar 11, 2010 6:44 pm

Everything is energy. All that we know and all that we don't know. To simply provide energy as an explanation for anything is pointless and says nothing other than it doesn't matter... it is what it is... energy. Well, what is the point of discussing anything...? We can just reply to each and every topic posted that it is just energy.

To say if you want to get rid of problems associated with money get rid of people implies that things are how they are and they will never be any different as long as people exist. Is that correct or did I misunderstand?

Randall wrote:Here is an energy thing ....
Negative energy..pushes things away
Positive energy... attracts things


I don't know what Bizzaro world you come from but as to my understandings as to the laws of physics opposites attract and like repels. Positive attracts negative, positive repels positive, negative repels negative. Which supports the theory that nature tends to balance and harmony. If something negative is going on it is simple logics that it will attract something positive to balance things.

As for your quote of "What you resist, persists."...
Americans and their wars?
War on terrorism, war on drugs, war on cancer, war on poverty... and the list goes on...

I would be very interested in hearing your opinion as to what Gandhi, Martin Luther King, or Malcolm X (to only name a few) would have to say about that quote...

It has been my understanding and experience that change occurs when the majority support that change regardless if it is in support of a positive or the resistance of a negative.
Last edited by Ryan on Thu Mar 11, 2010 6:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Money

Postby Randall » Thu Mar 11, 2010 6:49 pm

LOL
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