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PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:57 pm
by Sabina
Imagine starting a new community... how would you organize the aspect of money and finance?
Would there be any money, or not? Why or why not?

Whenever I think about society or society and change, utopia etc., I always eventually get stuck in this question. I would be more than happy to work for the benefit of the community.. but then what happens if someone else in the same community just doesn't feel like it?
What are your thoughts?


Re: Money

PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:59 pm
by Ryan
...what does it mean to... "start a new community"?

Re: Money

PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:01 pm
by Sabina
I don't know.... I am not planning to start one, it's like an imagination exercise. The way society is organized is not right, and I am sure it can be done better. Then I think about what all could be done better and how exactly. And.. when it comes to the question of money, I am just not sure, hence the question.


Re: Money

PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:08 pm
by Ryan
Here's what I think... don't worry or concern yourself with "starting a new community" just live your life how you would like to live it. If that is without money then live without money. If you have no need for money then it isn't a means with which one may approach you...

So then trade falls back on what it once was... simple trade... I have something you need, you have something I need and we trade... be it a good or a service. If someone has nothing to trade because they don't feel like it then it's no big deal and there is no one to blame but themselves...and it leaves the door open for others to be generous... or whatever.

Re: Money

PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:11 pm
by GenerousGeorge
Did somebody say Generous?? <3 Generous George here! B0)

Re: Money

PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:24 pm
by Sabina

Like I said, I don't concern myself with starting a new community... I sometimes think about society, the way it's organized, etc. and "this" is simply always a riddle.

I watched a video with Deepak Chopra, and profit as a subject, especially when it comes to spirituality, annoys me. Call it a personal shortcoming, or whatever.


Re: Money

PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:34 pm
by Ryan
I understand your irritation... however... to critically push your message upon others I believe the means is important. And to appeal to, and to even be given a slight chance by, the masses you have to put on the sheep skin and get into the pasture first (nothing personal Randall). It's close to what you were saying about those people who get into the corrupt end of the spectrum because they believe it is the only way that they can invoke change. However... in Deepak's defense I would like to say that entering the pasture and taking advantage of the pre-installed methods of brainwashing is much more understandable than undertaking the political arena. It would be similar to what Michael Moore said about using the corporation's money to get his movies out there to the people it is intended...

The Difference Between Wealth and Money

PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:55 am
by mirjana
The Difference Between Wealth and Money
By Deeapk Chopra

Ordinary people are outraged that the wealthy want to be given free money as a bailout, and at the same time they are frightened about losing their own money. Fear doesn’t live in a vacuum. To cope with uncertain times, many turn to morality. They blame runaway greed on Wall Street, even though, as a commentator wisely said, Wall Street without greed would just be pavement. They blame the financial world in general for being selfish and rapacious. They blame government for not looking after the average Joe, and finally, many people wonder if God isn’t blaming all of us for our sinful ways.

This flood of blame and judgment shows an impoverishment of spirit that is far worse than loss of money. Jesus was asking a serious question when he said, “What does it profit a man to gain the whole world if he loses his soul?” By the same logic he told his listeners to store up wealth in heaven, not on earth. This turns out to be good economics, because the more you attach your worth to money, the more harmed you will be in a crash. But there’s much more to it, of course. To be wealthy in spirit means that you are confident, tolerant and forgiving of others. If that seems too idealistic in hard times, then consider this. You are wealthy if you don’t need the things money can buy in order to prosper.

When we were young and didn’t have money, what motivated us? Enthusiasm, a vision of the future, the desire to follow a personal vision, curiosity about the world, a drive to fulfill our own potential, and love for those we wanted to nourish and support. All those things are tied to money, but they aren’t the same as money. They are the coins of spiritual wealth. Wealth of spirit gives you the ability to make a living. Having money in the bank doesn’t lead to love of others or a vision that motivates you to be better tomorrow than you are today. The way out of this financial crisis is for Americans to regain more inner wealth. How is that done?

Reject fear and pessimism.

– Know what your vision is and act upon it.
– Don’t blame others and seek payback when things go wrong.
– Prosper inwardly through love, generosity, giving, and altruism.
– Stop identifying with your salary and possessions.
– Work for the common good whenever you can.

No country has ever had a Golden Age when people lived by all these things, but there are times when these things dominate social behavior and other times when they are forgotten. I think it’s foolish to try and calculate whether America is in moral decline. Individual lives are always full of promise and hidden potential. The rise of a corrupt ruling class and the huge inequalities between rich and poor aren’t a good sign, but even here there’s enormous will to pull back from the brink. The key to a turnaround isn’t financial or moral, for that matter. It comes down to understanding the difference between wealth and money, and then living as if that difference matters.

Lest people think an idealist vision does not translate into practical economics, let us consider some of the specific policy outcomes that the current crisis could lead to:

1. A de-militarized economy that does not equate security with the size of the Pentagon’s budget.
Investment in wisdom-based economies, including alternative energies, sustainable agriculture and ways to restore balance in the ecosystem.
A genuine re-investment in education that rewards excellence in science and creativity.
The building of infrastructure, including urban oil-free transportation, restoring our bridges, roads, parks, and forest.
5. Comprehensive health care coverage for everyone in the country.

Every crisis comes with opportunity. Knowing the difference between wealth and money provides the wisdom to seize these creative opportunities. A monetary bailout, on the other hand would merely serve as a band-aid, not a long-term solution.

I thought it wouldn't be bad to have these lines here.
More from me later...

Re: Money

PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 5:48 am
by Alvino
Sabina , try this: MONEY IS ENERGY.

Re: Money

PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 8:38 am
by Ryan
=0@ =0@