Love

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Love

Postby Sabina » Sun Jan 24, 2010 12:26 pm

This is probably one of the bigger topics for discussion. It didn't cross my mind to post it sooner because I thought something along the lines of "love is love". However, in a recent discussion on Change & Fear, I was reminded of how differently we can perceive and judge love, and concluded that it would probably be interesting to explore this a bit further, wider and deeper.

So what exactly is love?

What is it that makes you think that you are loved? What is it that makes you feel loved?

What are the limits of love in your opinion?
Are there any acts which a person who loves in incapable of performing? In the sense that if these acts are done, then they are evidence that the person didn't or doesn't love.


Can love disappear with time? Is it changeable?
"Whether You believe you can, or you can't, you are right."
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Re: Love

Postby dermot » Sun Jan 24, 2010 7:01 pm

I think that love is like air, its all around. We choose to live with or without it. We dont 'get' it from others, we just tap into it like its a life force.
I am pretty sure its a fundamental way of being, one which we are born in, and which we can lose or maintain as life and its events unfold. They say that the first few years of life for a child influence to a great degree the way we are and how we operate. Sadly for most of us, growing up is painful and we lose the awareness of love. We look for it outside ourselves before we recognise it within.
An illustration of my belief in love would be the many instances where a stranger will throw themselves into a dangerous situation in order to protect someone in real danger.

What is it that makes you think that you are loved? What is it that makes you feel loved?

(must find out how to do the 'Sabina says' thingy)
I know that i am loved - the feeling of connection with that fundamental force is evidence itself. I suppose i am deliberately talking about love in a non romantic way which might be a cop out in terms of your question....


What are the limits of love in your opinion?
Are there any acts which a person who loves in incapable of performing? In the sense that if these acts are done, then they are evidence that the person didn't or doesn't love.

Maybe the limits of love are an inability to connect - lack of nurture, dreadful circumstances etc.
I'm sure there are lots of acts that indicate an inability to love, society seems to be almost dominated by examples. It has to be a blind soul to engage in these though, most of which i would not even want to think about.

Can love disappear with time? Is it changeable?

Love cannot disappear, but we can choose not to see it . Its a fundamental life force, so it does not change.

I hope i am right!
....the heart only whispers, be still and listen....
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Re: Love

Postby Ryan » Mon Jan 25, 2010 5:27 pm

What is Love?
What is love... I don't know... I know there are certain people to which I show love. How I show it is different depending upon the relationship/relation. I like Dermot's explanation of love being similar to a life force... but somehow I have trouble incorporating that idea into my experiences. Love is definitely energy, the highest concentration of energy... in my opinion. Society has definitely participated in my decision to limit to whom I will give love freely.

What is it that makes you think that you are loved?
What is it that makes you feel loved?
Tricky one...because you include the "FEEL"... I do not know how to explain it any other way. The things people do to show love towards you can definitely help you realize you are loved, but because people do different things for you out of love, I don't believe that is the main tell. I think it is more an inner gauge... you know? Kind of like a voltmeter that your soul just feels the love (energy) flowing from that person and filling yourself. And that is how you truly know...

What are the limits of love in your opinion?
Love... Limits... Does not compute! I do not understand the question... can I get an example?

Are there any acts which a person who loves in incapable of performing? In the sense that if these acts are done, then they are evidence that the person didn't or doesn't love.
No... people are capable/incapable of all kinds of things for personal reasons that has nothing to do with their love for any individual.

Can love disappear with time? Is it changeable?
Again... tough one... but yes the amount of love we receive from and give to any particular individual is controlled...

Looking back to Dermot's explanation of love... if love is a life force that we tap into then we act as conduits to channel that love outwards into our surroundings. When we are extremely happy we are simply spraying love all over the place we aren't being careful and picky to whom we are letting it land on... however, some people may provoke feelings of caution because they have proven to be judgmental, underhanded, or just plain mean... whatever and that causes us to minimize our flow of love to that person... yes, I said I liked Dermot's love force.
=0/
[R] If you don't understand something I said or why I said it... ask me.
If you don't want to understand something I said or why I said it... tell me.
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Re: Love is awareness of self and everything around

Postby mirjana » Mon Jan 25, 2010 10:04 pm

Love is for me awareness of the moment in which self is directed consciously in that what is doing. When this awareness is colored by joy and creation coming from the heart, then it is love. It is manifested toward self, toward others, toward nature, everything existing, and everything that is creation of creator, as everything is the one anyhow. Love is pure manifestation of faith in the sense of keeping the knowledge of the soul that everything has the reason to be like it is. It is a force we get as a genetic code to guide us over the life to the highest manifestation of self, be it aware of it or not. It can be developed or suppressed.
It is the most beautiful manifestation and self expression if it comes out of awareness and pure choice.
When we are united with everything around us and there is no separation, those are signs that we show love. We recognize such bliss, but unfortunately we also lose it whenever fear or shadow parts of our personality touch our heart pulling us back. Then we experience the opposite of love, which is new life experience, new lessons and awareness about something that after that brings us eventually closer to the pure realization of love. This compulsive game between love and its opposites lasts as long as our soul works on self. The whole process of learning and experiencing life is actually learning about love. Each new moment of awareness about self in the correlation with self, others, nature…brings us closer to the final bliss of the whole, which is Pure Love, or some call it unconditional love. As more aware about all shadows we have, all pain and sorrow, all weaknesses and struggles, all oppositions, more we are able to love. Love is to be able to love and because of that I think it is the process of self liberation. If our attention goes more in the direction to question if one is loved, it only shows more stuff in self to be clean, clarified and released.

Mirjana
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Re: Love

Postby Kris » Tue Jan 26, 2010 9:12 pm

I don’t think love is a feeling. I think love is a decision, a way of living. I think love can provoke feelings but feelings are not in and of themselves love.
I believe Ryan answered these questions the same way I would……. Although he did a better job than I could.
=0)
As an additional thought, this scripture comes to mind.


Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

1 Corinthians 13


__5__
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Re: Love

Postby Kris » Tue Jan 26, 2010 9:34 pm

I am thinking about your questions some more Sabina…What kind of love are we talking about?

Romantic love I would think would be reciprocated. Both partners should give 100%. To work, it has to be equally mutual. There are limits to romantic love…It is very sad and unhealthy for a women to continue to love an abuser....

How about a mother's love for a child? The motive is different than romantic love. We love our children unconditionally and give much more than we ever expect to receive. I hope that the way we love our children teaches them to love others and gives them a sense of fulfillment.

We love our neighbors and people we do not know. Our hearts ache for the nation of Haiti. I think our compassion towards that country is because they are our fellow human beings. Is compassion love?

Just some thoughts.

K
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Re: Love

Postby Metatron » Tue Jan 26, 2010 9:51 pm

So what is love?

If I wanna be all factual and daft, I guess I could say it's a set of feelings felt towards a person or persons. It's the people who I care for, people who I can smile at even after an argument, people I feel attached to no matter what. We are social beings so we need the presence of others to survive. And thus, I think, we would do anything for the people we love.

To illustrate this a little better and make my boring post a bit more interesting =0@ , here is a quote from the main character of the story I am writing, since this basically sums up my opinion about love. This is his promise to his little brother:

"Look, Sheol. I'll never abandon you, as long as you don't want me to. There's nothing I wouldn't do for you. If you asked me to count all the stars, I'd do it for you. If you wanted me to drink an ocean, I'd do it, for you. And if you asked me to go to the end of this endless world, I'd die trying, for you. Because if you are my motivation, nothing seemsto be impossible."

It's basically just a bunch of phrases, but it goes well here :)

What is it that makes you think that you are loved?


I feel I am loved when people act in ways the older brother would, as mentioned above. When I mess up and I am forgiven. When people surrender their own satisfaction for mine. A simple line "What's the matter?" means a lot, especially when I know it comes from someone who genuinely cares. And the best is to be loved by people who don't neccessarily have to tell me they love, for me to feel it.

What are the limits of love in your opinion?


The only limit is that what I am incapable of doing. However, as we haveall agreed with Ryan that if one wants, they can achieve it, this question beats me a little. I'm not sure ifI have enough experience to be able to answer this question.

Are there any acts which a person who loves in incapable of performing? In the sense that if these acts are done, then they are evidence that the person didn't or doesn't love.


Yes, I would consider deception and betrayal such an act. Sometimes people get blind when they love someone and they tend to ignore the fact that this love is being unappreciated and unreturned, even ridiculed.

Can love disappear with time? Is it changeable?


I guess it depends on the kind of love. However, if love is unconditional, then it shouldn't ever disappear, right? Maybe in that case we just try not to act upon the feelings, if we decide that the person we love is not worthy of our love anymore? Tough one to answer :S
Who the hell is it you try to impress?

All you have to do is learn to care less!
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Re: Love

Postby Heidi » Wed Jan 27, 2010 1:28 am

1. What exactly is love?
For me, love is the light that shows me the way, and keeps my heart alive.

2.What is it that makes you feel loved?
It's a kind of warm feeling, like when you approach your fireplace on a cold winter day.

3. What are the limits of love?
No limits at all. Love as a power and an expression of heart has no limits. However individuals may have some personal limits that have to do with ideas of discrimination.

4.Are there any acts which a person who loves in incapable of performing? In the sense that if these acts are done, then they are evidence that the person didn't or doesn't love.
There are always personal limitations without that meaning that a person does not love. While writing this, the film "Nyfes"(Brides) came to my mind. It shows how family rules cannot be overcome in favour of love.

5. Can love disappear with time? Is it changeable?
Yes, I think that love may change with time. It does not mean that love itself changes but the way we feel it. When our heart stops feeling love for a certain person, love does not perish. It goes to heaven...
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Re: Love

Postby dermot » Wed Jan 27, 2010 8:26 pm

A despondent, anguished soul finds repose in the company of another soul who shares in these feelings, just as two expatriates living in a foreign land delight in one anothers society.

Hearts that are brought together by the ache of despair are never estranged by the tinsel and bliss of gaiety, for the bonds of sorrow are stronger than the ties of joy and happiness.

The love that cleanses its eyes with its tears remains pure, beautiful and immorta.


Quote taken from 'Broken Wings' by Kahlil Gibran, page 30/31.

Love can take many paths, intensity on many levels, .........its still LOVE is it not???????????
....the heart only whispers, be still and listen....
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Re: Love

Postby Sabina » Thu Jan 28, 2010 6:29 am

Dermot,
In my opinion - Yes, absolutely!

Regardless of whether we talk of romantic love, or love for a friend, or children, or love for humankind in general... there are different paths to love, and different ways of love.

Even if the egocentric love is the lowest of all, it is still love.
If selfless or unconditional love is, on the same imaginary scale, the highest love of all, then that doesn't make all other ways to love nil.

So what exactly is love?
Love is life. It is the one thing that makes life worth living.

What is it that makes you think that you are loved? What is it that makes you feel loved?
This is the hardest of these questions.
Many little things, the way someone looks at you, sees the best in you.
Noticing, remembering and respecting things that are you.
... Millions of things can make me think or feel that I am loved...

What are the limits of love in your opinion?
Are there any acts which a person who loves in incapable of performing? In the sense that if these acts are done, then they are evidence that the person didn't or doesn't love.

Considering the complexity of the human mind, as a general answer I would have to say "no".
Someone can do something that I can interpret, if I want, as a sign that I am not being loved, however if that person is deeply troubled (for example), then they might be capable of doing what they did simply based on that.
They might still feel love, but that might just be the best they can do.
In that sense, if their way of showing love is not acceptable for me, then I can distance myself from them, but I wouldn't necessarily judge it as a lack of love. Neither that they did what they did, nor my distancing myself from them.

Can love disappear with time? Is it changeable?
Yes, it is changeable.
Can it disappear.. I am not sure.
If you once loved someone and you don't feel love anymore, but you still remember them at their best, and you remember the love, then in a way, that love is still around, even if just as a memory.
Remembering these things might be a choice though. I can imagine that someone wants to forget everything about a certain person, even the love. So, if they really do forget it, then I would say that the love disappears.
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