Love and Need

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Re: Love and Need

Postby Daywhite » Mon Apr 19, 2010 9:06 pm

Great comments, guys and gals. I think Dermot and Sabina are actually saying roughly the same thing. As Dermot said, "...might be slightly different to what someone else feels and therefore calls love, but its yours and it might change, deepen, or you might ignore it for a while." I think this fits well with Sabina's excellent illustration. One's raised a certain way, in a certain home, certain parents, etc., and so comes to define love as what he experiences throughout his maturation process. This steadiness, as Sabina terms it, is love to him. Others may have fairy tales, but, as he sees it, that's not love, not something that can be relied on, day in, day out.

Just as Dermot says it may be different than what someone else may feel or call love, but it's still love. I guess one of the things I questioned in writing this is in an instance like this, two different people, two separate definitions of love, do each receive the same benefits from love? Does each see love as something so positive and necessary or maybe one sees love, even when "in love," as simply a necessity of life?

Another question to ponder along these same lines, if we were to scan the brains of individuals in love, especially from totally different backgrounds, one describing love as "flowers in spring, fa-la-fa-la..." (get my point?), and the other, as Sabina's example, one who views love as simply "steadiness," would the brains of each show the same pattern of activity?

Great point, Ryan, and fits well with what initiated my thoughts on this to begin with.

As for Ms Holly (hope you don't mind the nickname), thanks for the welcome. Glad you like the topic. Jump right in; the water's fine and you're among friends.
"Sometimes you do it to save your own life, not anybody else's. That's mostly why I write. I'm not trying to change anybody else's life or the world; I'm trying to keep from blowing my own brains out. That's the real point." -- Guy Clark
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Re: Love and Need

Postby HGolightly » Mon Apr 19, 2010 9:13 pm

Sabina wrote:It can be much more simple than that. Here is an illustration of what I am trying to say.

A boy is raised in a fairly good home. His parents love each other as far as he knows. Their life is calm and steady, no excitement. Everything is ok, he has no reason to really question it, to ask himself "Is this love?"
He has been taught that it is and he accepts it. There is no huge conflict to point out any underlying problem.
The above is this boy's starting point for love. For him, love is not life's great answer to any question. It is not mysterious nor mystical. It doesn't make us feel like we are hovering instead of walking.
For him, love is steadiness...
So if he watches a movie, for example, a love romance, he may enjoy it or not, but chances are he will classify it as a fairy-tale. It is nice, we can maybe even learn something from it, but that is not how life is.

Do you see where I'm going with this?


Sabina, great illustration. I have a question. If someone has zero to offer, but "love", and professes that "love" is the bases for the foundation of a successful relationship - how does one respond to that?! To me when I hear this. I kind of shrink a bit, because I know there is so much more to the professed word of "love". It seems that to just say "love" is the foundation, is like implying that the word alone is enough to justify some "need" that a person has, or, perhaps to overshadow, the reality of their situation that might not be perceived as favorable. A "need" to feel "needed" ... "desired" ... "to feel fulfilled" in someway that is inherently missing. Yet, if that person showers the person with lofty words of "love" to distract from other aspects of the ingredients required within the the "need" to cultivating "love" ... a genuine love that begins with setting the foundation. Perhaps, if one communicates their unmet expectations (needs) sets the groundwork is a start for the "love" that is defined for each individual. I hope I was clear, as I'm a little scattered in thought today.

A very complex topic, as it has planted the seed within me to further explore this topic. Insightful!

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Re: Love and Need

Postby dermot » Mon Apr 19, 2010 9:14 pm

Daywhite,

an absence of brain activity in either case would most likely be the findings?
....the heart only whispers, be still and listen....
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Re: Love and Need

Postby Ryan » Mon Apr 19, 2010 9:24 pm

Hello Dermot...
;0)

I am certain that he would know he hasn't found it... whether or not he knows inside what Love is, I could not say... I would imagine that it all would be very confusing and maybe even a bit hopeless (depending on how long his denial and/or failure to understand himself) to the point it could cause a bit of cynicism towards Love (in a romantic sense of the word)... but that is just speculation and would depend largely on the character of the individual, their experiences, and their surroundings.

Daywhite wrote:Another question to ponder along these same lines, if we were to scan the brains of individuals in love, especially from totally different backgrounds, one describing love as "flowers in spring, fa-la-fa-la..." (get my point?), and the other, as Sabina's example, one who views love as simply "steadiness," would the brains of each show the same pattern of activity?

Oooh! Nice one... if both are equally identified and fulfilling it would be perceived the same and therefore evoke the same chemical reactions in the brain...
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If you don't want to understand something I said or why I said it... tell me.
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Re: Love and Need

Postby Sabina » Mon Apr 19, 2010 9:25 pm

Daywhite wrote:Another question to ponder along these same lines, if we were to scan the brains of individuals in love, especially from totally different backgrounds, one describing love as "flowers in spring, fa-la-fa-la..." (get my point?), and the other, as Sabina's example, one who views love as simply "steadiness," would the brains of each show the same pattern of activity?

You know, I almost made a mistake... and was going to confidently say that their brain scan results would be different, simply based on my personal judgment.
Because, in my personal opinion, "steady eddie" (as Dermot called him) could never be as fulfilled as the one living a fairy-tale.
But that is of course not true... because, it all depends on our needs. Or is it even a need?
What we are looking for...
If I am looking for passion, romance, adventure, you name it.. all of it! Then I will not be fullfilled until I have that what I am looking for.
Someone else may however feel fulfilled with a lot less.
So they reached their maximum, I reached my maximum.

Just because they are both our individual maximums, does that make them equal though?
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Re: Love and Need

Postby Daywhite » Mon Apr 19, 2010 9:26 pm

Perfect response, my dear Dermot. =0@

Ms H, I think in many ways, love can be used to manipulate. That's what I think of when I think of the instances you mention when one will use the word love to manipulate another's emotions. "Yes, but I said I love you; isn't that enough?"..."If you loved me, you wouldn't have to ask that."...and on and on. Just as a child will look up with tender, innocent eyes after doing something he knows he shouldn't have and say sweetly, "I love you, Mommy." Adults will do the same. As Pat Benatar said, Love is a Battlefield, or at least it can be.

There are also, obviously, the instances where one feels he is proving his love through his actions, no need to say it all the time. This happens in so-called love relationships as well as relationships between parent and child. There's a scene in August Wilson's play Fences where the father and son are in the backyard doing some work, whatever it may have been, and the son asks his father, "Daddy, do you love me?" His father lowers his hammer from what he's doing, looks at his son and says, something along the lines of, "Boy, who do you think put those clothes on your back? Who put that food in your stomach? Who put that roof over your head? And you ask me if I love you! Boy, don't you ever say that to me again."
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Re: Love and Need

Postby HGolightly » Mon Apr 19, 2010 9:28 pm

DayWhite, I don't mind the "nickname" ... =0@ I appreciate the humble reminder that I'm among friends'.
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Re: Love and Need

Postby HGolightly » Mon Apr 19, 2010 9:55 pm

Absent of brain activity?! Dermot, ;0)

Thank you for your comment, DayWhite. How can one be certain that "love" in relation to "need" is in fact manipulation? If a person is only capable of verbalizing "love" and "need", but perhaps, expresses an inability to carry out an "action", then is it plausible that it's something other than manipulation?! I kind of feeling stupid talking about this, as I'm trying to be objective, but it's not flying for me right now. I could delete this, but won't, since I'm among friends ...

I have to ponder this for a bit ... 80S
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Re: Love and Need

Postby Sabina » Mon Apr 19, 2010 10:01 pm

Daywhite wrote:As Pat Benatar said, Love is a Battlefield, or at least it can be.

Most definitely... and again, just like with the sado-maso example, for some people such a relationship may be heaven...

Daywhite wrote:There are also, obviously, the instances where one feels he is proving his love through his actions, no need to say it all the time. ..... "Boy, who do you think put those clothes on your back? Who put that food in your stomach? Who put that roof over your head? And you ask me if I love you! Boy, don't you ever say that to me again."

Ah yes... the opposite of heaven. People who are verbally as well as emotionally crippled exist as well. It is not a myth.
Mind you, I don't mean to diminish the power of action over word...

HGolightly wrote:Sabina, great illustration. I have a question. If someone has zero to offer, but "love", and professes that "love" is the bases for the foundation of a successful relationship - how does one respond to that?! ....

Dear Holly,
Since you are asking me, I would say.. one responds by asking questions.
If the other has a problem answering them, well.. you have a few options. One of them is to run.
Because... words can indeed be nothing more than "bla bla", and if that is all someone is capable of, then frankly, what's the point of a conversation with such a person?
Anyone can learn a set of phrases, so showering someone with lofty words of "love" is indeed one of the ways to distract from other aspects and necessary ingredients of cultivating love.
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Re: Love and Need

Postby HGolightly » Mon Apr 19, 2010 10:57 pm

Sabina wrote:Dear Holly, Since you are asking me, I would say.. one responds by asking questions.
If the other has a problem answering them, well.. you have a few options. One of them is to run.
Because... words can indeed be nothing more than "bla bla", and if that is all someone is capable of, then frankly, what's the point of a conversation with such a person?
Anyone can learn a set of phrases, so showering someone with lofty words of "love" is indeed one of the ways to distract from other aspects and necessary ingredients of cultivating love.


Dearest Sabina, Running is always a good option. Yes, and "bla bla bla's" are empty and draining, and perhaps, there is no point to a conversation unless there is "love" and "need" in the equation of the recipient and/or giver. Big sigh ... "love" and "need" in all its complexities. It seems like it could be easy - if people could just be honest in explaining their unmet expectations (needs!) to one another (from the onset), then "love" and "need" as defined (through awareness) - equating to the yin/yang affect.

"Run-nnnnn Forrest Run-nnnnn" ... that's the visual I have going on at moment ...
Bah! =0@ ;0) <3
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