Love and Need

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Re: Love and Need

Postby Daywhite » Mon Apr 19, 2010 6:26 pm

Dermot, When you say, "I think it has to be found inside before we have a chance of finding and staying with it 'outside'" you say so much of the points of what I wrote.

As you say, we have to first find it inside, and that was part of my wondering as far as each person has had different experiences to define love. I agree, we have to find it inside. But part of the problem is no one else can love you until you love yourself because until one sees himself worthy of love, he will never accept the love of another. There are simply so many aspects to and definitions of love that I find it fascinating to try to define it, to search for something in it that all will see as love, or to ask if that even exists.
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Re: Love and Need

Postby Sabina » Mon Apr 19, 2010 7:57 pm

On finding it inside...

What if you think you found it inside, and are happy to finally have found "love",... that grand "thing" that everyone is talking about, poets have written about and philosophers have contemplated on, but in actuality what you have found is not love at all?

What if you were so eager to find and discover love that when you found something that roughly fit the description you immediately labeled it love, when it really wasn't?

Or was it?
Is anything that one labels as "love" automatically love? Is the label enough to make it that?
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Re: Love and Need

Postby dermot » Mon Apr 19, 2010 8:10 pm

I guess Sabina that if you identify a feeling as love inside......thats what it is, might be slightly different to what someone else feels and therefore calls love, but its yours and it might change, deepen, or you might ignore it for a while. ?
....the heart only whispers, be still and listen....
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Re: Love and Need

Postby Sabina » Mon Apr 19, 2010 8:16 pm

Certainly. But consider this.
If you have misidentified love at the very beginning (when you first identified it as "love"), then this deepening and changing that occurs with further and new experiences will all be based on this misidentified love.

Not to mention, it will also have a large impact on the nature of these new experiences, and therefore the new experiences may simply be extensions or continuations, as well as repetitions or variations of the old experiences.
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Re: Love and Need

Postby dermot » Mon Apr 19, 2010 8:22 pm

What you are asking me to consider.......is the idea that someone, an ordinary Joe could mistake 'the feeling' love, for something else, and add further to his initial misconception without turning back to look at his mistake?

Seems more likely the growing and maturing process would inevitably lead him to the real meaning of whatever it was he was feeling.....or hes got a deeper problem?

Could someone who is not a pathological liar not understand that he is lying?
....the heart only whispers, be still and listen....
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Re: Love and Need

Postby Sabina » Mon Apr 19, 2010 8:32 pm

It can be much more simple than that. Here is an illustration of what I am trying to say.

A boy is raised in a fairly good home. His parents love each other as far as he knows. Their life is calm and steady, no excitement. Everything is ok, he has no reason to really question it, to ask himself "Is this love?"
He has been taught that it is and he accepts it. There is no huge conflict to point out any underlying problem.
The above is this boy's starting point for love. For him, love is not life's great answer to any question. It is not mysterious nor mystical. It doesn't make us feel like we are hovering instead of walking.
For him, love is steadiness...
So if he watches a movie, for example, a love romance, he may enjoy it or not, but chances are he will classify it as a fairy-tale. It is nice, we can maybe even learn something from it, but that is not how life is.

Do you see where I'm going with this?
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Re: Love and Need

Postby HGolightly » Mon Apr 19, 2010 8:41 pm

dermot wrote:What you are asking me to consider.......is the idea that someone, an ordinary Joe could mistake 'the feeling' love, for something else, and add further to his initial misconception without turning back to look at his mistake?

Seems more likely the growing and maturing process would inevitably lead him to the real meaning of whatever it was he was feeling.....or hes got a deeper problem?

Could someone who is not a pathological liar not understand that he is lying?


Hope you all don't mind my jumping in ...

The ordinary, Joe ... could mistake, or better yet, "intentionally" base the feeling of love to suit his own needs, as well as to move right along without acknowledging his perceived mistake, but then why would he, if perhaps, it was intentional.

Yes, logically the growing and maturing process would hopefully facilitate an awakening of sorts, but chances are he's got a deeper problem that hasn't been addressed within himself.

Perhaps, it's a pathological liar in denial, but what do I know (lols) ... I'm engaging in a bit of transference at thinking about the word, Joe, and the connotation it holds to me ...
=0o =0@

Welcome, Daywhite - great topic!
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Re: Love and Need

Postby Ryan » Mon Apr 19, 2010 8:49 pm

How about looking at this conundrum from the possible perspective of a homosexual male rejecting the possibility of himself being homosexual because it is condemned and explained as being a psychological disorder by his surroundings. And therefore his search for romantic love is never fulfilling and yet he continues to search in a misguided direction simply because of his social education.
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Re: Love and Need

Postby dermot » Mon Apr 19, 2010 8:55 pm

Yeah......i see completely Sabina, and its a good argument.

But.

But.

I said initially that Love is a fundamental life force, i dont think its possible to mistake something that fundamental, if you dont have it....you know you are missing out on something.

There is research suggesting that a babys smile is pre programmed to illicit the nurturing response from its Mother, this impetus has to come from basic life forces ...ie Love?

The boy brought up on 'steadiness' ......sees life through those eyes, everything is 'steady'..lets call him 'steady eddie'.......nod and wink to Holly!
He cant , at least cant yet.....tap in to the Love Thang.
....the heart only whispers, be still and listen....
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Re: Love and Need

Postby dermot » Mon Apr 19, 2010 9:05 pm

Hi Ryan,
i could think of several examples, the boy you mention being one, where social conditioning actively reduces the possibilities of a person connecting with Love as a life force. Its another hurdle to be overcome.

He probably does recognise Love for what it is underneath the confusion though, would'nt you think, ....taking the example you gave .
....the heart only whispers, be still and listen....
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