It's up to you... or is it?

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It's up to you... or is it?

Postby Metatron » Fri Apr 16, 2010 4:23 pm

I have had a stage in my yet short life when I was a determinist, this forum kind of got me rid of it, however it still dwelled in me, somewhere deep inside. It is deffinitely a conflict that is happenning inside of my head: on one hand, determinism made a lot of sense to me, on the other hand, I hate the fact that I am just a puppet and the world around me is the puppeteer. I rejcted the idea for a while... however.

I posted my basic info in the Memebers Oracle forum and Sabina and Mirjana were so kind to tell me some stuff about myself, about my personality, and the accuracy of it is terrifying. It was like reading about myself... And all that from a couple of letters and numbers!

How is this possible? How come my personality can so easily be described, when we have free will, we make our own decisions, it should logically follow that we make up most our personality as well.

I'm not simply asking why this is so, I am also making a request. Please kill that little beast called determinism that is inhabiting my mind...
Who the hell is it you try to impress?

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Re: It's up to you... or is it?

Postby Ryan » Fri Apr 16, 2010 4:38 pm

=0/
Ok... this post is just to give me a hard time for not having completed my part on your member's oracle post, right?
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Re: It's up to you... or is it?

Postby Sabina » Fri Apr 16, 2010 5:14 pm

David,
Here are a few stories from my life (either having to do with me personally, or what I have witnessed/observed).

There was this man who was an excellent astrologer. He is not alive anymore, unfortunately... I am saying "unfortunately" for very egoistical reasons, simply because I would love to talk to him again.
Anyway, he was truly good at what he did, he wasn't just someone who opens up a book, or enters data in the computer and reads you stuff that you could also read yourself... he was the real thing.

He did the horoscope of a man, a friend of my parents, and he told this man not to drive a car. The man didn't believe him, and also didn't want to let astrology determine what he is going to do and what not, so he went on a trip with his family, as planned. Himself, his wife and two children.
They had an accident on that trip.
His family was ok, but the man died.

He did a 5 year horoscope for my father, as a written report, for business only. Year after year it read more or less the same stuff, similar at any rate, you know.. ups and downs and ups and downs... but in the 5th year he wrote that my father would get a large amount of money... that this would happen unexpectedly... and that it will come from an older man... not an inheritance, but business-related.
David, it happened like he said and in the year in which he said it would happen.

The same astrologer did my horoscope at two points in my life. The first time was when I was 12, without meeting me in person. My parents asked him about me, and after they gave him my "info", he told them various things... My various gifts and talents.. that I could accomplish whatever I choose to with any one of them, but the part that always freaked me out more than anything else was that he said that I am beautiful.
80|
How could looks have anything to do with astrology?!? I thought that was just genes and nothing else.

Later, when I was 21 I met him for the first time and we talked face to face. He did my chart, turned to me and said:
"You can choose to be a writer or a psychologist."
"Ok", I replied.
"No", he said, "Choose now. Do you want to be a writer or a psychologist?"

David, that was a choice. Free will. Within the realm of what is predetermined, there are still choices.
By the way, I said "Writer", and he continued to tell me about my writing career, my soul (he called me the daughter of Victor Hugo), and he also told me about people in my life, friendships, etc.
He was very precise... as in what will happen when... which part of my life... according to him, I should start writing about now. lol

When talking about determinism and free will, The Matrix is an excellent movie... and here is one scene in particular that is also worth considering.

What's really going to bake your noodle later on...


Pineal (a DS member) also said it nicely, and it is one of our DS quotes:
"The future is a set of probabilities."

He came to that conclusion based on his experience with the palm leaf reading, which is also a kind of astrology.

The set of probabilities is predetermined... but within all that we do have free choice, and our choices determine the outcome... our life.
That is also the conclusion I have come to based on a few more things that happened to me, but I will write about those some other time. This is already an indecently long post. lol
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Re: It's up to you... or is it?

Postby dermot » Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:27 pm

David......like you i was quite amazed by some of the 'readings' done by the DS members. They were uncanny, but the interesting part is that some descriptions that were made were references to character traits still hidden in my life.
By that i mean that they described what is as yet potential....but still ME.

To me this means that i still have the option of opening up parts of me that to date have not been able to flower.

So the answer to the question must be that all is not predetermined, choices and circumstances play a part in revealing true self.
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Re: It's up to you... or is it?

Postby Sabina » Fri Apr 16, 2010 10:19 pm

Sabina wrote:He did the horoscope of a man, a friend of my parents, and he told this man not to drive a car. The man didn't believe him, and also didn't want to let astrology determine what he is going to do and what not, so he went on a trip with his family, as planned. Himself, his wife and two children.
They had an accident on that trip.
His family was ok, but the man died.

I would like to get back to this part of my above post once again...

Certain things are predetermined... so was it predetermined that this man would meet the astrologer and that the astrologer would tell him not to drive a car?
Was that event in itself a test that he failed? Or not?
The reason I am wondering is because people sometimes ask for signs, and the thing is, they usually get them. Whether they recognize that something is in fact the sign they asked for is another question.
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Re: It's up to you... or is it?

Postby mirjana » Sat Apr 17, 2010 12:16 am

Sabina wrote:...
Certain things are predetermined... so was it predetermined that this man would meet the astrologer and that the astrologer would tell him not to drive a car?
Was that event in itself a test that he failed? Or not?
The reason I am wondering is because people sometimes ask for signs, and the thing is, they usually get them. Whether they recognize that something is in fact the sign they asked for is another question.

I think that the final sentence from the video above is a crucial. Our life is between possibilities (potentials) which are limitless and limitations that we put upon ourselves. Those who explore eternity, they do not have problem with last sentence. Neo didn't have it as well and therefore in the moment when he supposed to act as predicted he acted from his highest self and dropped the matrix.
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Re: It's up to you... or is it?

Postby Sabina » Sat Apr 17, 2010 1:18 am

The last sentence in the video is:

"What's really going to bake your noodle later on is,
would you still have broken it if I hadn't said anything."

Mirjana wrote:Neo didn't have it as well and therefore in the moment when he supposed to act as predicted he acted from his highest self and dropped the matrix.

I don't want to make this talk now about the Matrix, but I don't understand your statement.
He always acted from his "highest self", in each of the repetitions (reincarnations?) and yet he didn't succeed each time.... do you remember?
It kept "looping" though until he finally got it right all the way.... B0)
Maybe we should discuss the movie as a separate topic (?), there is certainly a lot to talk about.
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Re: It's up to you... or is it?

Postby Metatron » Sat Apr 17, 2010 11:52 am

Well, I've read all posts and I still don't get it... I mean, I know what I've read and I could totally relate to all of it, it is indeed what I am like. It's like I developed in a pattern. I didn't have anyone in my early life that could predict something to me and push me in a certain way. How could something like being born in a certain year affect the development of my personality? I know not everything is predetermined, but this seems to be such a weird coincidence...
Who the hell is it you try to impress?

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Re: It's up to you... or is it?

Postby Ryan » Sat Apr 17, 2010 1:15 pm

Have you ever heard how people tend to act differently during a full or new moon? Do you believe it is true?
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Re: It's up to you... or is it?

Postby Sabina » Sat Apr 17, 2010 1:51 pm

Metatron wrote:I didn't have anyone in my early life that could predict something to me and push me in a certain way.

Just because someone predicts something doesn't mean you are being pushed in a certain direction.
The man who went on a trip is a nice example of that, and I know others too.

Metatron wrote:How could something like being born in a certain year affect the development of my personality? I know not everything is predetermined, but this seems to be such a weird coincidence...

It is not just being born in a certain year...
It is the exact date, the exact time and the exact place too. And your name in numerology.... and there are people who can tell you about you just by reading your face! I met such a man once.. he was from Syria and was staying in Vienna for a few months only. He said he spent 10 years learning how to do that, but the results were uncanny.

Without exact data, in astrology for instance, you can get approximate information, which can be quite general. It would still fit, but not be as "creepy" accurate.

If there is indeed a reason for everything, then being born in a specific environment is definitely part of that reason. It is what you or any of us needs in order to experience the things we need to experience.
Some people believe that, before we are born, we choose our parents. That we from that point of view (outside of this earthly life) decide where to start, because from that angle we can see more.. and choose the environment (parents) which would allow us to learn our lessons sooner.
Then again, maybe some choose based on that criteria, and others choose based on entirely different criteria, such as the desire to have an easy life, etc. Who knows.

From the moment we are born it is a learning process. Some people learn quickly, and get to their destination sooner, some are slower learners and repeat the same lessons over and over again.
Nobody is meant to "not learn"... that part (learning or not learning a lesson) belongs to the free will factor.
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