Good people and bad people

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Re: Good people and bad people

Postby alija » Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:13 pm

Pat wrote:Hi Mirjana
It is not that much of a story but it is a choice that I made and regretted for long time.
About 25 years ago I had the opportunity to take a young man into my home who had aids and was thrown out of his house by his parents because he was gay and they found out because of aids.
::::::::::::::::::
I still struggle with the decision that I made. I made a choice because of my fear.


Hi Pat, as well as the others,
From my point of view to talk about god or bad man is a blasphemy. We have no mean to measure if one man is bad or good. Being divine creation each man is a priory good.
System needs and creates this kind of vocabulary in order to easier control people. Just declare them bad and they need whole life, in some cases, to prove they are innocent.
Where are the limits between this two categories?
Knowing and not doubting in the mirroring processes, I would say any person being ready to declare someone as a bad person is finding something of his, own, traits in this bad person.
No, there are no bad persons, there are some bad deeds, actions which have been caused by causes and conditions unknown to us.
Your story Pat is also very interesting.
I think you did a good thing not accepting that AIDS guy in your house. This fear created conflict with your innate intelligence what resulted in a kind of catharses.
I see it this way.
Namasthe and love!
alija
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Re: Good people and bad people

Postby Sabina » Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:57 pm

alija wrote:Just declare them bad and they need whole life, in some cases, to prove they are innocent.

This has nothing to do with any system. This has to do with people and their limitations.
But, it doesn't have to be that way!

Right now when someone hears "good people" or "bad people", and shrieks, that may be because of a judgmental society. So let's not heal the symptoms, but the cause instead. That's usually the better way to do things. Better in the sense that is lasts longer, because it takes care of the actual problem and not just the manifestation.

An allergy to terms such as good people and bad people is a manifestation, a symptom. That is not the part that needs to be "fixed". To avoid these phrases won't help anything in my opinion. People will then simply think of other ways to word the same thing. It's pointless.

A healthy society is the only real solution, and a healthy society begins with healthy individuals.

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Re: Good people and bad people

Postby GenerousGeorge » Thu Jan 14, 2010 5:26 am

Good Topic! It is certainly not a simple question. Perhaps good and bad is all relative and a matter of perspective. Most of the Christians I know say it all comes from God and without him we are basically sinners and don't know good from bad. I don't agree with them on that premise, but that is another topic.

One test for me if an action or outlook of mine is good or bad is WHO am I concerned about. If it is me and my ego there is a good chance I'm heading toward the bad side of town. If I am putting myself in anothers place and then trying to help that persons well being etc. I am probably heading for the good side of the tracks.

Trouble is, I am good at fooling myself about what I am doing and why. Denial and self interest is a pwerful force for disguising bad as good. Just look at any group of children together. With their imaginations they can view themselves as the "good guy" no matter what their self interest and motives actually are. They always have an out........ "The dog ate my homework." etc.

In my experience as we grow older and more "sophisticated" we become better and better at that, until we have a self image of ourselves and the world that serves our concept of who we are. Within that concept is everything we consider good or evil. In the end we have "grown ups" who can send young people to war and unimaginable suffering for them and the "enemy" all the time thinking he/she is a good person, doing the right thing. Some even think they are doing God's will and have received direction directly for him. Jeezy Peezy..."What a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." (ourselves and others that is)

In the end, as I grow older, I try more and to answer questions like this in a way that rings true to my inner self. It is a good test of my ability to be honest with myself. The old adage, "Do unto others as you would have them do to you." Is a good place to start answering the question what is the definition of good and bad for you.

In the end what is good or bad is a matter of personal view and result of your own journey. Unless you believe in an omnipotent God who is the final authority for good and evil, you have to look to yourself.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it. :)
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Re: Good people and bad people

Postby Alvino » Sun Jan 17, 2010 6:40 am

George, I understood you to conclude that if you are concerned about yourself = your own ego you will be Bad.
I am very much concerned (in love with myself and all humans) about myself so my utmost goal is to make choices and do only those things that would cause others to view me as being a Saint or Saint like.
Truly loving oneself
includes owning and practicing a deep respect for myself, consequently, I will not hang out with people with obscene talk dispositions or those who deliberately cause emotional or physical harm to others and
I will make some attempt to defend the weak and to guide those who do talk obscenely or show a lack of respect for themselves or others to CHANGE THEIR ways, if possible.

You can love yourself and use This self love as Motivation to do only good = good being
DOING only those things which will NOT cause harm to myself or others or NATURE.
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Re: Good people and bad people

Postby GenerousGeorge » Sun Jan 17, 2010 7:56 am

Hi Alvino .....it was not my intention to equate self love with ego. I believe they are different. Ego is about...."I want" often to the exclusion of someone else getting the same thing, self love is about..... "I am satisfied and happy with myself and how I deal with people and the world, I see myself as a good and loving person" etc.
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Re: Good people and bad people

Postby Alvino » Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:47 am

Someone shared their failure to do a good deed - still causes them some emotional pain = Pat?

Two monks who had made all kinds of monastic vows including Never to tough a female human
person.
Early in the morning, they came to a river and a young woman was near the bank = Crying and moaning
and crying because she could not cross the river.
So one monk placed her on his back and ferried her across the water.
Then the two monks continued on their journey. They walked all morning and stopped for lunch
and then continued on their trip. Late in the day they stopped and one monk
asked the other monk why he had been so sullen and upset during the long day of walking.
The monk answered: You made a vow that you would never touch a woman the rest of your entire life, But Yet this morning you carried that young lady on your back and crossed the river
with her on your back
The first monk said: Dear God, are you STILL CARRYING HER, I put her
down many hours ago, but you are still carrying her as a burden.
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Re: Good people and bad people

Postby mirjana » Tue Jan 19, 2010 4:44 pm

This is a very good story. The message of this one is not far away from the message of the story about Two Wolfes.

The Story of Two Wolves

A Grandfather from the Cherokee Nation was talking with his grandson.

"A fight is going on inside me," he said to the boy.
"It is a terrible fight and it is between two wolves."

"One wolf is evil and ugly: He is anger, envy, war, greed, self-pity, sorrow, regret, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, selfishness and arrogance."
"The other wolf is beautiful and good: He is friendly, joyful, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, justice, fairness, empathy, generosity, true, compassion, gratitude, and deep VISION."
"This same fight is going on inside you, and inside every other human as well."

The grandson paused in deep reflection because of what his grandfather had just said.
Then he finally asked: "Grandfather, which wolf will win?"

The elder Cherokee replied, "The wolf that you feed."


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Re: Good people and bad people

Postby Pat » Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:32 pm

Excellent Mirjana . I have always loved that story .... It always rings true.
Pat
:)
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Re: Good people and bad people

Postby Alvino » Wed Jan 20, 2010 5:53 am

HOW TO FIND GOOD PEOPLE

A traveler came to the guard at the night gate to a City.
Guard "Sir, how are you tonight and how can I help you?.

Traveler: " I am on a journey looking for a city of good people that I can live with."
Guard: Sir, what is GOOD PEOPLE to you?
Well, I want to live in a city where citizens are happy, smiling folks and where
I do not have to lock the doors and be afraid of my neighbors and all people
treat each other with respect and help each other.

Guard: "Sir, what kind of people lived in the city you are coming from:

SEEKER: Well, in that city all people have to be leary of each other and
one could not leave doors or windows unlocked day or night and no respect was
shown to one another and all were grumpy.

Guard "Sir, then this is NOT THE CITY that you are seeking , it is not the city for you
because that is the kind of people YOU WILL FIND HERE, ALSO.

SO THE seeker went on his way.

Then another traveler came to the Same Gate and the Same Guard.

Sir, how are you tonight and how can i help you.

Traveler "Well , I am looking for a new city to live in with Good people living in it
Guard: "What kind of people lived in the city you just left and what are Good People.

Traveler "Oh , they were wonderful people, we could our homes unlocked and people
smiled a lot and both young and old respected each other a lot . It was full of
very GOOD PEOPLE.

the SAME GUARD said "Sir, welcome to our city. Those are the kind of citizens you will FIND
in our City. It is full of GOOD PEOPLE.
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Re: Good people and bad people

Postby Sabina » Wed Jan 20, 2010 6:01 am

Your focus determines what you see... :)
That's a wonderful story Alvino!

Thank you for posting it.

Sabina
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