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Friendship between Men and Women

PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 12:35 pm
by Sabina
When I was around 15 years old I heard of a talk between adults on whether friendship between men and women is possible or not. The women claimed it was, while the men explained that it wasn't. Last night that topic was refreshed.

The question is - can a man and a woman be friends to the same degree as two men or two women, so without any sexual attraction from either side?

I have spent many of my teenage years trying to prove that such a friendship is possible, because from my point of view it was absolutely possible and I didn't think it would be much of a challenge to prove it. I was sad back then to discover that there was eventually always an ulterior motif to that friendship from the side of my male friends.
Does the approach change with time and age? Does maturity change sexuality in friendship?
According to some of the explanations I received it remains the same, but I cannot believe it to be that way for all.

What are your thoughts? Is it possible for a man and a woman to be friends without any aspect of sexuality ever coming in between them?

Sabina

Re: Friendship between Men and Women

PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 12:57 pm
by mirjana
Hi Sabina,
What an interesting topic :)
I have been trying the whole my life to prove that the friendship between man and woman is possible. And during all this time, I have never met any man that agreed, except a homosexual. All our family friends, meaning my and my husband's fiends said the opposite. They say that the attraction is first pure sexual and based on that eventually it is possible to develop a friendship as well. I have never felt that way, but maybe because I am a woman and maybe in this one we, as being opposite genders, do have different approach.
So, it seems that only with close relatives with whom the sexuality is excluded, it is possible to nurture the friendship.
In my personal case I can admire somebody´s soul and feel very close and deeply involved in friendship without any sexual connotation.

Mirjana

Re: Friendship between Men and Women

PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 12:24 am
by Heidi
The "case" was solved long ago, when Oscar Wilde said: "Between men and women there is no friendship possible. There is passion, enmity, worship, love, but no friendship".

We simply cannot ignore the natural law of sexual attraction between a man and a woman and exceptions are there just to prove the rule.

Personally, I had plenty of male acquaintances, especially at school or college, but not a close friend with whom I could talk about everything, or stay at his place over the weekend as it could happen with a girl-friend. I don't think I would feel comfortable in such a relationship.

Re: Friendship between Men and Women

PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 10:34 pm
by mirjana
Heidi wrote:The "case" was solved long ago, when Oscar Wilde said: "Between men and women there is no friendship possible. There is passion, enmity, worship, love, but no friendship".

We simply cannot ignore the natural law of sexual attraction between a man and a woman and exceptions are there just to prove the rule.

Personally, I had plenty of male acquaintances, especially at school or college, but not a close friend with whom I could talk about everything, or stay at his place over the weekend as it could happen with a girl-friend. I don't think I would feel comfortable in such a relationship.


I like the quote you remembered..just the right one for this topic.
Your very last sentence helped me to realize that this could be my final too in my previous text.
When I said :"In my personal case I can admire somebody´s soul and feel very close and deeply involved in friendship without any sexual connotation."...I had to add for the short afternoon talk or something like that. And then, your last sentence will be perfect as the end.
I like very much your explanation. It corresponds the truth.

Mirjana

Re: Friendship between Men and Women

PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 10:50 pm
by Sabina
Heidi wrote:Personally, I had plenty of male acquaintances, especially at school or college, but not a close friend with whom I could talk about everything, or stay at his place over the weekend as it could happen with a girl-friend. I don't think I would feel comfortable in such a relationship.

I did have a close friend with whom I could talk about absolutely anything, and we are still friends today.


Oscar Wilde wrote:There is passion, enmity, worship, love, but no friendship

Why not friendship?

I am not sexually attracted to every man, or hardly any man for that matter (I was always very picky), so in that sense, can't there be such a man as well? A man who would only admire my mind, way of thinking, sense of humor, etc., but not be sexually attracted to me at all?

And then, if that happens, it could of course be called the exception to the rule, but how many exceptions does it take for the exception to become a rule, and can't there be anything that can be done so that there are more such exceptions?

Sabina

Re: Friendship between Men and Women

PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:23 am
by mirjana
"I did have a close friend with whom I could talk about absolutely anything, and we are still friends today."
I think we all agree here that it is possible to have a good friend who is male. But, in order to become long lasting friendship, at least one of two should not be physically attracted. In my cases, even with friends that I still love and in the meantime have a life friendship, initially it was a kind of sexual interest which stopped over time because I was not interested.
Having many male friends, during my school, during my studying and afterwards as family friends, somehow this topic would come quite often. From male site I would always hear that in the so called male´s world friendship with a girl is hardly imaginable, except as possibility to be close to somebody for whom you are differently interested and with the hope that over time it will show and that something else will develop.
Some other people say that only after two people had already experienced sexual relationship and stop being interested like that for each other, it is possible friendship to develop.
But your words, Sabina, in the very last chapter of your answer are so beautiful and I do believe that it works like that. Women who are not flirting with every man and recognize the related soul nurturing friendship between men and women, as well such men, they change the model of dominant behaviour. And good energy have been spreading.
Thank you Heidi and Sabina for this inspiring talk and great insights I have got so far.

Mirjana

Re: Friendship between Men and Women

PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 1:07 pm
by Ryan
I don't really understand what we are talking about... I hear mention of life long relationships...I don't have any life long relationships, except with my Sister and my Mom...and there isn't any sexual interests there, so does that mean all my female friendships are not a model for discussion? I was never really one to confide in anyone about anything deep or personal... does that mean that those female friendships are not applicable as well?

I have had friendships with females with whom I was neither physically attracted nor sexually interested. They are people... why would I base my interest of a person on something so shallow as physical pleasure? I admit that each friendship is definitely formed around some self serving benefit but why does it have to be sex? Why can it not be intellect, fun, or just mutual understanding?

Maybe those that have never had a relationship with the opposite gender that wasn't, in one way or another, based upon a sexual interest are those that are more a product of the imposed social standards? Maybe their thoughts are trapped in those cliched roles where women are mothers, lovers, and house keepers and men are fathers, hunters, and providers? Therefore their basic approach to the opposite gender is based upon those limitations? Maybe if they viewed one another as equals their relationships could be based upon other things that had nothing to do with sex?

I don't know, I do know that I have had relationships with women that had nothing to do with sex in any way... but then again I believe most people's approach to sex is completely self serving and therefore a bit repulsive to me as a result. I believe that sex should be an expression of the most deepest and intimate love for an individual, not some sort of extracurricular or recreational activity that is entered into lightly and forgotten even easier...

Re: Friendship between Men and Women

PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 1:23 pm
by mirjana
Hi Ryan,

I like the way you put a light on a theme which goes parallel with friendship in this topic, which is sex.
And because I share your opinion about sex you have explained in the very last sentence, it has always been possible for me to have friendship with male friends. Still, this uncomfortability that would occurs occasionally would always be connected with the realization that the other part is not so clean in motives.
Perfect friendship match is of course when the purity of soul is there in sharing support and experiences.

Mirjana

Re: Friendship between Men and Women

PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 6:06 am
by Pat
Sabina wrote:When I was around 15 years old I heard of a talk between adults on whether friendship between men and women is possible or not. The women claimed it was, while the men explained that it wasn't. Last night that topic was refreshed.

The question is - can a man and a woman be friends to the same degree as two men or two women, so without any sexual attraction from either side?

I have spent many of my teenage years trying to prove that such a friendship is possible, because from my point of view it was absolutely possible and I didn't think it would be much of a challenge to prove it. I was sad back then to discover that there was eventually always an ulterior motif to that friendship from the side of my male friends.
Does the approach change with time and age? Does maturity change sexuality in friendship?
According to some of the explanations I received it remains the same, but I cannot believe it to be that way for all. What are your thoughts? Is it possible for a man and a woman to be friends without any aspect of sexuality ever coming in between them?


Hi Sabina
I have asked many men and women this same question over the years...and I always get the dame response. Women tell me that yes you can have a male friend who is a friend with no sexual overtones. Mens tell me just the opposite. I being a woman have always felt that there can be a friendship with out any sexual overtones but all the men i know don't agree. I am not sure what is the truth or if there is a truth..
Pat

Re: Friendship between Men and Women

PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:46 am
by GenerousGeorge
Hmmmmmmmm?? Nothing is more chilling to a man than a woman telling him....."I would just like us to be friends". Sabina.....beautiful women have more trouble with this issue than those not so attractive. Maybe that is why you have difficulty with the "making friends with guys issue". If a fella spent some time being friends with someone as beautiful as you and did not wish the friendship to develop into more, there may be something loose in his wiring system.

The impulse for men to have sex is one of the most basic motivating factors evolution (or god) has endowed us with. It trumps everything else. It governs almost everything men do from sports to business to "you name it". Friendship involves intimacy and communication. I have often thought the desire for understanding, friendship and intimacy is very much the same as searching for God.

It is a kind of dirty trick from god that he made us this way, but he wanted the human race to propogate so he made that almost irresistable urge a part of us.

Just as an aside why do you want to be friends with a guy if sex is out of the question for 95%, why not just concentrate on female friends and avoid the issue. Mostly kidding, it is a really good question and may not have any answers that will satisfy us.