Experiencing Diviner's Sage

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Experiencing Diviner's Sage

Postby Sabina » Fri Jun 25, 2010 6:51 pm

I've been working on a herbal catalog of sorts, which will be available on the Deep Spirits site soon, and so I came across a very interesting sage plant called Diviner's sage or Seer's sage.
It is used by Mazatec shamans to induce a dream-like state in their healing and diving sessions.

The plant contains Salvinorin, which is
the most potent naturally-occurring psychoactive compound.
B0)

However, no toxicity, no side-effects... no physically addictive properties either.
A nature's gift to allow us to see a bit more.
So, I got curious.
It is legal, as it is harmless in every way that matters, so I found a place which sells the dried leaves (for smoking), the extract, as well as the plant itself.
Fresh leaves are better/more potent than the dried.

__13__

Here are some reports about about the usage of this plant.

Salvia is not 'fun' in the way that alcohol or cannabis can be. If you try to party with salvia you probably will not have a good experience. Salvia is a consciousness-changing herb that can be used in a vision quest, or in a healing ritual. In the right setting, salvia makes it possible to see visions. It is an herb with a long tradition of sacred use. It is useful for deep meditation. It is best taken in a quiet, nearly dark room; either alone, or with one or two good friends present.

A survey of salvia users found that 38% described the effects as unique in comparison to other methods of altering consciousness. 23% said the effects were like yoga, meditation or trance.

Media reporters rarely venture to take salvia themselves, but one firsthand journalistic account has been published in the UK science magazine New Scientist:
"The salvia took me on a consciousness-expanding journey unlike any other I have ever experienced. My body felt disconnected from 'me' and objects and people appeared cartoonish, surreal and marvellous. Then, as suddenly as it had began, it was over. The visions vanished and I was back in my bedroom. I spoke to my 'sitter'—the friend who was watching over me, as recommended on the packaging—but my mouth was awkward and clumsy. When I attempted to stand my coordination was off. Within a couple of minutes, however, I was fine and clear-headed, though dripping with sweat. The whole experience had lasted less than 5 minutes."


__2__

I will report back on the experience after I've had it, but I was wondering if anyone here has any personal experiences with Diviner's sage?

Even if you haven't, feel free to share your thoughts. :)
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Re: Experiencing Diviner's Sage

Postby Agate » Fri Jun 25, 2010 10:37 pm

I've heard of salvia, but mostly with panicky overtones of "OMG, it's something legal that people can get high off of!!!!"

What research I've done, though, backs up what Sabina posted. Having not directly experienced the stuff myself, I'm inclined toward cautious openness. My concerns lie mostly in the folks that would use it in ways not recommended. I think people tend to have a knee-jerk reaction to the idea of a mind-altering substance being legal.

Used with wisdom and caution, salvia looks like it could be interesting and helpful; one can only hope that the majority of those who use it do so for the right reasons rather than just a desire to get high.

(And for what it's worth, I've no reason to worry about Sabina using it incorrectly ;0) )
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Re: Experiencing Diviner's Sage

Postby Sabina » Sat Jun 26, 2010 12:48 pm

Agate wrote:My concerns lie mostly in the folks that would use it in ways not recommended.

Which way do you mean Agate?


Agate wrote:Used with wisdom and caution, salvia looks like it could be interesting and helpful; one can only hope that the majority of those who use it do so for the right reasons rather than just a desire to get high.

(And for what it's worth, I've no reason to worry about Sabina using it incorrectly ;0) )

Thank you for the vote of confidence. :)

The "getting high" part lasts very very short based on what I've read, so getting high for the sake of getting high... I neither see a purpose nor a problem really.
It actually depends on the why. Why one wishes to get "high" and since Diviner's sage doesn't just keep you high or altered, but rather offers a short glimpse... anyone who is not interested in it for that purpose will probably only be disappointed and therefore not use it again.
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Re: Experiencing Diviner's Sage

Postby Agate » Sat Jun 26, 2010 6:25 pm

Call me cynical, but from what I've seen, if it's possible to get a buzz of something, somebody's going to do so to the point they damage themselves. Combine mind-altering substances with people who only care about getting high while leaving out any kind of common sense...yeah. From what I've seen most younger people who try salvia are only in it for the high, not any kind of deeper seeking.

That isn't my primary concern, though. The main thing I worry about is the reaction of a parent/caregiver who discovers their teen partaking of such a substance. A single ignorant and panicking parent could cause a hell of a lot of trouble. One such panicking parent lobbied my high school to lock up rubber cement because her son got a buzz off the fumes.

So my issue is mostly in the shocking lack of common sense. Kids trying to get high off a substance they don't know much about and adults freaking out because their kids are getting high. Used with wisdom and caution, I've got no problem with salvia...but I don't trust my fellow Americans to display either of those virtues.
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Re: Experiencing Diviner's Sage

Postby Sabina » Sun Jun 27, 2010 2:41 pm

Agate,
I understand everything you are saying. And it's not just things one can get "high" from... it is unfortunately much more common things as well.
Vitamin C is a good thing.. so some people take huge amounts of it and cause themselves kidney damage.
Of course, ingesting vitamin C tabs or ingesting it through fruit and other foods is not the same, but people tend to look for the quick path to something, rather than the right one.
I'm not even going to get into medications and misuse thereof.
Aspirin, a common drug, used to be advertised as something that should be taken as a precaution! To prevent heart attacks and strokes....
You read the risks and side-effects of that, or you find out about effects of prolonged usage, and your head starts spinning, but most people don't get into that.
Not even smart people...
I am extremely frustrated at times with a lack of curiosity of people.
Salvia and other truly natural substances are the least of the problems, the way I see it. The problem is mostly in the lack of curiosity and the lack of education.

Any parent, when raising children, has two choices:
1- Scare the child, so it doesn't do that "something" (that is potentially dangerous), or
2- Simply forbid the "something", or
3- Educate the child in regards to that "something", whatever it may be. Explain everything.

The third option is more work, plus it requires the parent to actually know what they are talking about, so it is not as popular as the first and second option. That is a pity, because the 3rd option is the only one which truly works.
Plus, it not only educates the child about the particular something in question, but also demonstrates an approach.

Whether parenthood or schools, or society in large... forbidding something never ever makes sense, and the lack of education, the lack of information, is always accompanied by sad side-effects, of one sort or another.
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Re: Experiencing Diviner's Sage

Postby Agate » Sun Jun 27, 2010 5:48 pm

Sabina wrote:Any parent, when raising children, has two choices:
1- Scare the child, so it doesn't do that "something" (that is potentially dangerous), or
2- Simply forbid the "something", or
3- Educate the child in regards to that "something", whatever it may be. Explain everything.

The third option is more work, plus it requires the parent to actually know what they are talking about, so it is not as popular as the first and second option. That is a pity, because the 3rd option is the only one which truly works.
Plus, it not only educates the child about the particular something in question, but also demonstrates an approach.

Whether parenthood or schools, or society in large... forbidding something never ever makes sense, and the lack of education, the lack of information, is always accompanied by sad side-effects, of one sort or another.


Oh, don't even get me started on that one!!! I'm watching a whole generation raised wrapped in cotton wool, not allowed to experiment with anything for fear they could wind up hurt. I understand the desire of a parent to protect their kid from harm...but knowledge is power. If we raise children to be ignorant, mindlessly conforming we do everyone a disservice. We teach kids to be afraid of everything unknown, to be rigid and frigid and unable to compromise.
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Re: Experiencing Diviner's Sage

Postby Sabina » Sun Jun 27, 2010 6:06 pm

So, in conclusion, you and I could probably go on and on about this topic and just keep nodding as the other one speaks.
Cool. :)

Who knows, maybe someone else has something else to add to this?
If not, I will report back, as promised, on the personal experience with Diviner's Sage...
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Re: Experiencing Diviner's Sage

Postby enjoitherhythm » Wed Jun 30, 2010 7:17 am

I've still got to write an intro but hello all!

I felt like putting my two cents in because entheogens/psychedelics is where a good bit of my experience lies. I've used salvia a number of times over the years and I've certainly had some interesting experiences on them. But imo, a spiritual journey this stuff is not. Though very short acting, the body effects when coming up (incredibly quickly, so much so that its you better not use the glass pipe you might drop it!) are particularly strange, usually characterized (for me and a few friends) by a strange pulling around the heart chakra. One person likened it to the comical cane coming from backstage to pull you off.

That said I would be very interested in trying a more traditional use of it. The shaman are said to have stuffed the fresh leaves in their mouths almost like chewing tobacco or the traditional use of coca. It would be good this way to chill out and slow down the experience. Smoking the stuff is incredibly intense and somewhat overwhelming and I would certainly not recommend it being someone's first ever psychedelic experience. It's really weird.

I've given up on the stuff for now (I remain true to the psilocybin spirits :) The main reason is because a lot of the commercial stuff has some seriously weird juju on it. Particularly the "Salvia Zone" product, which is an extract (and bloody expensive I might add). This particular stuff brought on a trip that I can only describe as a very disorienting journey into the realm of the relentless salesmen spirits. It produced none of the reality bending visual hallucinations that I've had on experiences and had some vibes in its mind realms that gave me the impression that it had been grown with profit in mind...

I could go into all my different experiences but I won't for now. I will say that BY FAR the best that I've had is smoking a few big tokes of the plain leaf sold in headshops etc. The extracts have always kinda weirded me out. The leaf experiences were pretty incredible, enough so that I remember after nearly 5 years. Beautiful and astounding visual hallucinations. One of the characteristic visions that I have gotten reports of from a few others that I have shared with is what I call the "people chains". With these I experience certain characters, whether they be normal sort of folks or more native seeming type of folk, with the chain of every moment stretching behind them like a tracer kind of. It sort of gets at the whole quantum reality thing for a moment.

Anyways, if you're looking for a sort of chill-out, get inside your mind experience you may want to stick to the cannabis or something. This ain't the stuff imho, even though they are selling it as such. And again, I wouldn't recommend the Salvia Zone, weird juju.
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Re: Experiencing Diviner's Sage

Postby Sabina » Wed Jun 30, 2010 10:19 am

Thank you for that!
Also welcome! I look forward to the aforementioned intro. :)

I didn't expect anything like marijuana and I know they are not comparable.
The "people chains" you mentioned sound really interesting.
I would be curious to understand why it happens with some people and not with others.
That was my first thought when I read it.

Eating the fresh leaves it is supposed to last for up to 30 minutes.
It arrives slower and lasts longer.
I just don't know how many fresh leaves it takes... do you?
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Re: Experiencing Diviner's Sage

Postby dermot » Thu Jul 01, 2010 7:48 pm

A question,
could Salvia be the product i hear is being used by people who are doing the Shaking thingy?
....the heart only whispers, be still and listen....
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