Empathy

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Re: Empathy

Postby GenerousGeorge » Mon Mar 01, 2010 11:32 pm

I really don't want to be advocating Christianity; there is so much in it's literaure and spoken by it's earthly leaders, that I think are not conducive to a healthy, wealthy, wise and self fulfilled humanity, but "truth in lending",when I ask Christians what was the big deal (sacrifice) of Jesus dying on the cross, when he knew that in 3 short days, he would be back with Dad, er back with himself next to the Holy Spirit er whatever.....he would be back on the throne in the Kingdom of heaven. B0) King of The Hill again B0)

They often respond with words to the effect that he had to take the burden of the sins of humanity on himself (ultimate empathy) and that was what the great sacrifice was all about. =0o

The pentultimate PTSD perhaps. That at least makes some sense as an analogy, but then if he dies to take that burden off from us why must we still bear it? =0/
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Re: Empathy

Postby mirjana » Tue Mar 02, 2010 2:13 am

Although not advocating Christianity, you are the one who took it as an example for this game, so I stay in it. Do you remember the big house and what Sabina said that I love games? ;0)
"...he had to take the burden of the sins of humanity on himself (ultimate empathy) and that was what the great sacrifice was all about. =0o

The penultimate PTSD perhaps. That at least makes some sense as an analogy, but then if he dies to take that burden off from us why must we still bear it? =0/"

Because if we understand in our lives the meaning of ultimate empathy, maybe we shall analogous to that also discover the purpose to be here and peace when being here stops. Just a hypothesis...


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Re: Empathy

Postby GenerousGeorge » Tue Mar 02, 2010 2:32 am

and a good one.....but not evidence for the historical validity of Jesus. =0/
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Re: Empathy

Postby Randall » Tue Mar 02, 2010 2:45 am

I'm enjoying reading all the posts... and I said I would get back to this.

Mirjana wrote
If I were you, I would ask myself what is the fear behind the realization of having strong empathy within you. Let it be free, embrace it in order to learn to live with this. It is a gift that is not there without reason.
Could you define what do you see today as an emotion that stayed behind the realization of empathy in these early years?


The fear comes from feeling unclean. No one asked me to see, feel inside them like that and I saw some things from certain people they would have never willingly shared with me. Thats the core of it.

I can't seem to reach into that emotion Mirjana. It always came as a shock and I wasn't expecting it. That's about all I can remember about it right now.

George I think your on to something with your thought process and I also think you might have found a possible key to your PTSD.
מלכות השמים היא עם ב לך
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Re: Empathy

Postby mirjana » Tue Mar 02, 2010 3:26 am

Randall, could you remember a situation when else you felt that way, unclean?
What does this word mean to you? Are you able to put it as passive and active and see what happens?
Have you ever thought about that what is the concept of conscience and guilty for you?
Can you describe a feeling of shame? When does it appear by people?

George, I love your story about being picked up and learning from that experience. I have similar experiences with the same result. When I read your lines about movies, books and how you feel things in advance and about your uncomfortability because of that, again the same. Unpleasant experiences cause charge in our body and they guide our mind, visual and mental approaches. The only way to deal with them is to peel the charge which is connected to them. Then they are still here but like photos in the album, without emotional charge that causes problems.

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Re: Empathy

Postby Alvino » Tue Mar 02, 2010 4:05 am

What I've found so far is that those people that are truly empath's in an extreme way are in fact born with this gift in tact...and while most generally find ways to block a chunk of this as they grow, in order to survive the emotional onslaught of the people around them, can never

while MOST generally find ways to block a chunk of this as they grow, in order to survive
the emotional onslaught of the peole around them,...

This brings to mnd the word: CALAMITY.

LEAHANN, are you hinting or telling us that an over abundance of Empathy will
create much calamity in one's life??

If so then Empathy must be closely related to LOVE because love certainly does
cause lots of calamity , especially in America. (USA).
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Re: Empathy

Postby mirjana » Tue Mar 02, 2010 12:09 pm

Hi Alvino,

I think that empathy is trace of love that is the least connected to our ego and as such it is a bridge to realize unconditional love.

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Re: Empathy

Postby Leahann » Tue Mar 02, 2010 4:23 pm

Hey everyone...going to start addressing this from the end up...:)

Alvino

while MOST generally find ways to block a chunk of this as they grow, in order to survive
the emotional onslaught of the peole around them,...

This brings to mnd the word: CALAMITY.


ca•lam•i•ty   [kuh-lam-i-tee] Show IPA
–noun,plural-ties.
1.
a great misfortune or disaster, as a flood or serious injury.
2.
grievous affliction; adversity; misery: the calamity of war.

In a very real way there is a truth behind what you are saying, however only in part...in a way it is almost more chaotic than anything else...with many opposing experiences housed inside you in a way...things that go against personal idea's and understandings...personal values etc...and in fact as a young person it greatly confuses a person so that there is no solid base from which values may be created as so many have been experienced through other peoples experiences that have been shared...knowingly or unknowingly.

In a very real way those empathic moments when you are experiencing what another has experienced or is experiencing...they become a part of the the empath's experiences.

If so then Empathy must be closely related to LOVE because love certainly does
cause lots of calamity , especially in America. (USA).


It all depends on your idea of what Love honestly means.

To me there is the Love that is everything that exists...all energy is a product of Love...however in our experience we relate Love to a positive feeling verses say Fear which is a bad or negative feeling...when in fact or at least to my way of thinking all of these feelings we have are all aspects of Universal Love...not sure if that makes sense.

So if I am looking at this statement from that standpoint I'd say that it is all related to Love regardless...but looking at it from the point of view of love being a feeling sense of wellbeing and elation ...warm feelings etc...I'd have to disagree.

George:

WOW! VERY, VERY INTERESTING! I feel that I have empathy to a degree I have to keep it from affecting how I function on a daily level. Maybe thats why my PTSD from combat in Vietnam is so severe. I felt the same empathy for the people we were fighting and all the innocent civilians in the middle.

Good Grief! I'm lucky I'm semi-sane!


Ya think? ;0) Yes I would agree with you here and I believe that this is a good part of why there is so much PTSD associated with war in general. Not only are you witness to some of the most horrible human events and so much fear and death, but it also lends to many people becoming more open to empathic experiences do to extreme trauma which often shocks a person into empathy...if only sometimes for a moment, but in war it is almost a constantly traumatic experience.

In relation to the idea that when Jesus was on the cross I had to stop and think about it for a bit...not so much that the idea of him taking on all our sins being empathic...I guess I just understood that it was...but the idea of him taking on the burden of our sins and how it relates to empathy is a new twist in a way.
My personal understanding or lesson based around the crucifixion may be a key in this…and maybe not so I’ll just write it down and we’ll see.

I was told…spiritually that the whole idea of taking on the worlds sins was to show that no matter how horrible you may have been or what horrors you may have been involved in that you are always loved unconditionally and that we need not ask forgiveness from God/Jesus because he already did through this act.

The act of asking forgiveness is for us to forgive us and each other and that there is a realization that we are loved and accepted regardless of our sins.

So in a way a burden has been lifted…or shared with another that no longer are you alone carrying this burden of guilt or bad feeling towards yourself and that the one that shared with you this burden through empathy is not judging you by it but rather has given us the opportunity to forgive ourselves and our loved ones for their mistakes in life…and this gives us the idea and understanding that we can transcend such things.

Not sure if that made any sense at all…but I can try and clarify if you are not understanding.

There are many good lessons in the Bible if we look for them…and while I do not believe that it is the word of God so to speak…there truly are some gems in there and life lessons if you are open to receive them.

Mirjana,

I think that empathy is trace of love that is the least connected to our ego and as such it is a bridge to realize unconditional love.


You hit on something I think…in relationship to our ego. One thing I have experienced is that when I’m in a place of ego or false beliefs of myself for the sake of feeling more powerful or accepted, I have not been able to read accurately another persons experiences through Empathy.

I think that at times because empathy is so much a part of myself…that even with blocks and barriers in place such as ego…somehow an event will happen and someone will come along and Empathy takes over and by pass’s ego…then this event brings me down to earth again…humbling me if that makes sense.

In all things Love exists and perhaps Empathy at it’s greatest level is unconditional Love…however I don’t always feel that way, as with all people I do process the information at some point through my personal experiences and react accordingly…so judgment does happen…however perhaps the act itself lends to Love at a higher level of consciousness that I am not aware.

Love this thread!!!
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Re: Empathy

Postby Alvino » Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:47 am

, but in war it is almost a constantly traumatic experience.

GEORGE, is this true.
Was any part or DAYS you spent in the war == FUN?

This came to mind because I do not know if empathy
is only related to physical or emotional pains OTHERS are suffering.

Can't we have empathy with their JOY.?/
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Re: Empathy

Postby Sabina » Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:57 am

That is an excellent question Alvino:
"Can't we have empathy with their JOY?"

It does seem that most people automatically connect empathy with pain, sorrow or dark feelings in general, rather than with positive feelings. If it is empathy, then it is both. It does not judge.
Good one! :)

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