Drugs

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Drugs

Postby ThePermster » Wed Aug 11, 2010 6:15 pm

Quite a simple but rather broad topic this one. Drugs. Let's see where we end up with this one shall we?

What do all the folks of DS here make of drugs? Do you have varying opinions between different drugs perhaps?
I imagine there's probably some here who are aware of the entheogenic properties of drugs, what do we make of those?
How about drug laws or drug culture?
What experiences with drugs have you had that you don't mind sharing? Positive? Negative? Explorative?

This is definitely a very wide topic and really part of my interest in making this topic is to see what particular aspects of drugs people end up bringing up to talk about so by all means ask your own questions on the subject and talk about whatever of the subject you want to talk about!

Myself, still being part of the young generation and all the shenanigans that seem to closely parallel the academic process I find myself surrounded by various borders of drug culture.
Whilst I don't disagree with drugs as a whole I have made one observation of their culture which particularly bothers me, and that is how often drug use appears as a mindless self indulgence. I know very few people who make sure they're knowledgeable about a drug before they consider it and that to me seems so sadly mindless.
Somewhat interestingly though the people I know who do take the time to educate themselves about the substances they're using are usually the types who started not with alcohol or cannabis but instead from the somewhat more scarier side of things like salvia and DPH. It seems to me like these people have at the very first step learned how to respect the effects of drugs and have often entered into their use not looking for mere recreation but instead are interested in far more potent things like introspective exploration and altered perception.

So what are your views?
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Re: Drugs

Postby Sabina » Wed Aug 11, 2010 11:13 pm

It's simple and it's not.

First of all I differentiate between naturally occurring vs. the synthetically produced drugs. I firmly disagree with simply throwing all drugs into the same pot in any discussion on that subject. My parents used to do that, simply say drugs are bad, without ever having tried any except for smoking (cigarettes) and alcohol (in mild occasional quantities).

In natural drugs there is an order to things. I opened a topic on salvia (which you referenced as one of the extremes), incl. several quotes and reports on its usage. I still haven't tried it, but I definitely will. Ideally, the way the shamans do, so by eating the fresh leaves, or smoking the dried leaves.
I tried Marijuana when I was 16 for the first time. I think it is interesting and would most definitely recommend anyone to try it, but (and this is a BIG "but"), it should not be a way of life. No drug ever should.
Be it Marijuana or alcohol or especially any stronger substances, trying it or using it occasionally is one thing.. the drug taking over your life is an entirely different matter.

I wrote I would recommend anyone to try it.
Actually strike that. It is not carefully enough worded, and I will explain.

I think there are some basic things to consider when it comes to drugs, a few basic, common sense rules really:
    1. Never ever use any drug when you are sad or simply down.
    2. Never ever use any drug because someone else thinks you should.
    3. Never ever use any drug you don't know anything about.
    4. Never ever use any drug from a questionable source.
Also, if possible, don't use drugs when you are alone. A long time ago I heard someone say "Never ever drink alone. When you drink alone, you know you are a drunk."
This doesn't necessarily have to be true, but it actually makes a lot of sense. In other words, drinking a glass of wine over a solo dinner doesn't necessarily make you a drunk, but getting a buzz or being intoxicated from alcohol when you are alone, well, then you know...

As for the harder synthetic drugs, I didn't like what I heard. From some you can get addicted after one usage only, so just satisfying my curiosity in order to try it didn't make sense to me.
In the mean time I am heavily opposed to synthetic drugs. Most of all because they are not needed and have, from what I can see, only negative "benefits".
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Re: Drugs

Postby Agate » Thu Aug 12, 2010 4:20 pm

I agree with Sabina that there is a massive difference between naturally occurring substances and chemically produced ones.

I also think that whoever first called pot a "gateway drug" needs a swift kick in the pants.

Pot is one of the most readily available substances, so it stands to reason that it is one of the first drugs many people experiment with. But calling it a "gateway drug"? Please. Just because most people who abuse the "bigger" drugs tried cannabis does NOT mean that smoking a joint will automatically lead a person to a life of illicit drug use!

Frankly, the man-made chemicals scare me more...and a lot of them are legal.

All that said, I think the biggest issue in this topic is not the drugs themselves, but the way we view them. As an American, I live in a culture that has a pill for every problem...but demonizes natural substances like salvia and cannabis. Natural pain remedies are distrusted in favor of things created in a chemistry lab, and people don't even think about what they're putting into their bodies.

I also worry about the mindset so many younger people seem to have, a willingness to do anything to get high. I knew a couple kids who used hardcore drugs as teens; they did it to cope with emotions they had nowhere else to put. The used drugs because they were desperate to feel something, anything at all. But when they landed in the hospital, what happened? Some doctor gave them pills to feel better. The underlying issues were never dealt with.

The culture I live in is infused with drugs, and the ones who use them legally tend to look down their noses at those who do not. And that really bugs me.

Now, if you'll excuse me, writing this has made me so anxious, I need to go take an Ativan to calm down!
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Re: Drugs

Postby Sabina » Sat Aug 14, 2010 3:34 pm

Agate wrote:All that said, I think the biggest issue in this topic is not the drugs themselves, but the way we view them. As an American, I live in a culture that has a pill for every problem...but demonizes natural substances like salvia and cannabis.

Agate, this is an excellent and very important point!
Some people will talk of drugs, automatically narrowing it down to those that are seen as "mind-altering substances", when the most common and in that sense most dangerous drugs are often served in form of a prescription!

For example...
Life is bad, so someone gets depressed, so they are prescribed happy pills and the problem is considered as solved/handled/treated.
Not only that, but a lot of the people who are taking them will go to great lengths to argue that they have "a wire loose in their brain" and therefore need the drugs, because they can't solve the problem without. When it gets to the point that someone would rather say "I am defective" than to face their life and make the necessary changes in order not to need any pills, then that's a problem.

Treating the symptoms instead of treating the cause is unfortunately extremely common.
Like you said, "But when they landed in the hospital, what happened? Some doctor gave them pills to feel better. The underlying issues were never dealt with."

Agate wrote:I also think that whoever first called pot a "gateway drug" needs a swift kick in the pants.

[El] I agree with the verdict as well as your explanation....

PS: Since natural remedies were mentioned, I thought I'd point out the herbalism section here on DS: Herbalist's Essentials.
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Re: Drugs

Postby ThePermster » Fri Aug 20, 2010 1:13 pm

There is plenty of merit in using drugs and therapy in synergy together though. Quell the symptoms with drugs and whilst they're down go in with some CBT and sort the problem out. Very effective from what I hear.

It's also worth noting how many of the Western world's health systems hold the professionals to their drug dishing behaviour. Pharmaceutical companies, limited resources and hypochondriac-worn workers all help maintain this poor practice.
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Re: Drugs

Postby Agate » Fri Aug 20, 2010 2:41 pm

ThePermster wrote:There is plenty of merit in using drugs and therapy in synergy together though. Quell the symptoms with drugs and whilst they're down go in with some CBT and sort the problem out. Very effective from what I hear.

It's also worth noting how many of the Western world's health systems hold the professionals to their drug dishing behaviour. Pharmaceutical companies, limited resources and hypochondriac-worn workers all help maintain this poor practice.


I think you second point rather outweighs your first, Permster. I know from experience how much benefit one can gain from combining drugs and therapy...but insurance seldom will pay for ongoing talk-therapy. It's easier and less time-consuming to tell someone to "take two of these and call me in three months" than to sit down and really work on the issues.

I've got no problem with folks needing a little chemical assistance to help them get their head back in order. My issues are all with the mindset that a pill will magically make all your problems go away.
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Re: Drugs

Postby crystaldart » Fri Aug 20, 2010 5:23 pm

No first hand experience with drugs, especially for 'going on the ride'. So can't comment on that part.

But, there is lot medicinal applications for these drugs if handled by right physicians. But the extraction and synthesis of these drugs is very much different when developed as medicines. Some people though use these drugs available as it is as psychedelic drugs for some treatment. It has side effects and extensiveness use of such as a permanent solution shouldn't be encouraged.

There have been some argument about legalizing drugs, in the hope to cut down the abuses happening in its name. It might bring down the criminal activities to some extend. But that I would like to put before you people views.

Lets see..
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Re: Drugs

Postby Ryan » Mon Sep 13, 2010 11:19 am

Drugs... it is a wide topic... I have been a recreational user of drugs... a decent variety. I have never stuck a needle in my arm/vein(s). To me, needles... a junkie do make. I have never been addicted to any drug... the worst (and only) addiction I ever had was cigarettes and I haven't smoked a cigarette in... I don't even know exactly... I think almost four years now. I live with a smoker and smelling smoke, or watching the action, doesn't bother me at all. I believe that there is such a thing as a healthy usage of mind altering substances depend on a number of things... the "WHY" being the most important... an escape is never a good reason...

For medicinal purposes... I do not trust people/corporations any longer and therefore pharmaceutical means are not really an option... I can, and will, use such a drug as a temporary relief but I can't foresee a possible reason to take a pill or injection as a means to treat or heal something. It has been my experience, so far, that there are natural remedies and treatments that can be applied for almost all ailments and that would always be my preference... To my understanding most modern/man made drugs have derived from a natural substance that humans have taken...studied... and synthesized to be more potent and more easily attainable... or at least more easily mass produced and packaged... and after finding out what humans are doing to food, and the likes... I certainly don't trust the drugs... I trust nature... The way I see it... the natural substances have been tested for millennia as opposed to the ones man has made that have been tested for only a few months at the most...
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