Death and Future

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Re: Death and Future

Postby Ryan » Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:19 pm

Hmmm...interesting concept, but if I understand you correctly... you think the future is determinable to a high degree even taking into consideration the mechanical and natural influences? Weather, natural disasters (floods, earthquakes, hurricanes, tsunamis, etc.), a car breaking down or an elevator/escalator... city bus or subway, train derailment...airplane crash, etc.?

Since you say that we would need to know the exact actions of the past and the present that those small unaccounted things (someone turns back to their home to get their umbrella because it is raining and that delays their normal routine by 30 minutes...doesn't that affect everyone's future that would normally have come in contact with this person if they wouldn't have turned back for their umbrella?) that happened in the present would then alter the outcome of the future exponentially, so wouldn't the calculation have to be made again?
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Re: Death and Future

Postby Metatron » Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:28 pm

Sabina wrote:What if it as simple as that? Free will as a choice.
If you say you don't have free will, then for you everything happens in a predetermined way:
if you say you do have free will, then you get to choose your adventure...


I am afraid, Sabina, that it is not that easy. Problem is, there isn't only one ambition in the world. We have different ones and when they collide, it must not always turn out well. Also, I can decide I want to do something, but my conditions won't allow me to (be it physical or mental, financial or other). Just as a year ago, after seeing bits from Billy Elliot the Musical, I wanted to become a musical theatre actor, do tap dancing, ballet (this is, like, the definition of gay :D )... I realized it was too late for that (I know, I can always start doing ballet, but never on a professional level), and even though I applied for a dance school away from my hometown, I couldn't go because it didn't fit with the time schedule of my high school.

So no, Sabina, it doesn't always work like that. Some things simply are predetermined, and cannot be changed.

Ryan wrote:Hmmm...interesting concept, but if I understand you correctly... you think the future is determinable to a high degree even taking into consideration the mechanical and natural influences? Weather, natural disasters (floods, earthquakes, hurricanes, tsunamis, etc.), a car breaking down or an elevator/escalator... city bus or subway, train derailment...airplane crash, etc.?

Since you say that we would need to know the exact actions of the past and the present that those small unaccounted things (someone turns back to their home to get their umbrella because it is raining and that delays their normal routine by 30 minutes...doesn't that affect everyone's future that would normally have come in contact with this person if they wouldn't have turned back for their umbrella?) that happened in the present would then alter the outcome of the future exponentially, so wouldn't the calculation have to be made again?


Let's say, hypothetically, that we didn't only know the actions of humans, but of every single tiny particle that is close enough to the Earth to have some relevant effect on what happens on it. If we knew perfectly how physical laws work, we would be even able to determine not just what effect does a certain particle in one's body have on his behaviour, but also determine his personality (assuming that right now I understand at least the basics of human anatomy and psychology). So in that case, I would know that it would eventually start to rain, and that this person, given by his personality, would turn back because he doesn't usually like to get wet, or we would know that this person has more important work to do, is in a hurry, and would in fact not turn back for his umbrella. So no, if we were indeed in the possession of such an extremely precise information, calculations would not have to be made again. That is, of course, only how I interpret the Laplace's Demon.
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Re: Death and Future

Postby Sabina » Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:44 pm

Metatron wrote:I am afraid, Sabina, that it is not that easy. Problem is, there isn't only one ambition in the world. We have different ones and when they collide, it must not always turn out well. Also, I can decide I want to do something, but my conditions won't allow me to (be it physical or mental, financial or other). Just as a year ago, after seeing bits from Billy Elliot the Musical, I wanted to become a musical theatre actor, do tap dancing, ballet (this is, like, the definition of gay :D )... I realized it was too late for that (I know, I can always start doing ballet, but never on a professional level), and even though I applied for a dance school away from my hometown, I couldn't go because it didn't fit with the time schedule of my high school.

So no, Sabina, it doesn't always work like that. Some things simply are predetermined, and cannot be changed.


Like I said, if you say you don't have free will, and that it is predetermined, then it is so.......
You are kind of proving my point here for me. :))

However, I did say that I also believe that everything happens for a reason, so you not being able to become a musical theater actor was probably for the best, for you, because maybe in time you will realize that you do have free will, and when you do, then the part that was in fact predetermined will have helped you to make the right choice for you further down the line, and make it out of your own free will.

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Re: Death and Future

Postby Metatron » Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:07 pm

Sabina wrote:
Metatron wrote:I am afraid, Sabina, that it is not that easy. Problem is, there isn't only one ambition in the world. We have different ones and when they collide, it must not always turn out well. Also, I can decide I want to do something, but my conditions won't allow me to (be it physical or mental, financial or other). Just as a year ago, after seeing bits from Billy Elliot the Musical, I wanted to become a musical theatre actor, do tap dancing, ballet (this is, like, the definition of gay :D )... I realized it was too late for that (I know, I can always start doing ballet, but never on a professional level), and even though I applied for a dance school away from my hometown, I couldn't go because it didn't fit with the time schedule of my high school.

So no, Sabina, it doesn't always work like that. Some things simply are predetermined, and cannot be changed.


Like I said, if you say you don't have free will, and that it is predetermined, then it is so.......
You are kind of proving my point here for me. :))

However, I did say that I also believe that everything happens for a reason, so you not being able to become a musical theater actor was probably for the best, for you, because maybe in time you will realize that you do have free will, and when you do, then the part that was in fact predetermined will have helped you to make the right choice for you further down the line, and make it out of your own free will.

Sabina


You may be right, my observations so far have shown me otherwise, though. Maybe, in time, it will have a positive effect on my life, but right now it just giving me feelings of sadness and regret :) And I don't think happiness should be a destination, it should be a way.
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Re: Death and Future

Postby Sabina » Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:41 pm

And since happiness is a way, and we choose how we do something, then choose to be happy now, and follow the trail of happiness.
80S

Hence, then happiness is the way as well as the destination.

And this in a topic with the title "Death and Future"! LOL
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Re: Death and Future

Postby mirjana » Sat Feb 20, 2010 12:03 am

Some more thoughts about death and future...
When we watch some interview on the television we do not believe that two persons who are in talk there are at that moment in our television set.
Out body experiences are experiences of no locality.
Can you then understand the concept that real we are not limited in our bodies and our life time?
Can you take it that spirit is not local but infinite pervading all the space/ time as timeless and transcendent?


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