Choices

Metaphysical, spiritual, philosophical or mystical topics.
The forum for talks about the intangible universe, the human mind, and the soul.

Choices

Postby Pat » Wed Jan 06, 2010 11:19 pm

I have been spending a lot of time reading what has been written on this forum. It seems that there is one topic that keeps coming up in various forms and that is good and evil, right and wrong and choices. I wonder if we really do have choices in life until we become aware or some may say awakened. What do you think?
:)
User avatar
Pat
 
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:06 am
Location: USA traveling
Personality: Extrovert
Favorite book: .
Favorite movie: .
Things I like: .
State of Mind or Tendency: Neutral
Kudos: 7

Re: Choices

Postby Sabina » Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:32 am

Hm.. those are definitely amongst the life's big topics.
In order to answer your question, I must first ask one myself though. :)
You know me... I like to ask questions...

How does one know if they are aware or awakened?

I am asking because if I assume that I am awakened, and therefore have a choice, then how can I know how it would be if I wasn't awakened?
What if I was born awakened while someone else sleeps through their entire life?
How can I even try to understand or guess what choices they have?
Or is it that if i am awakened I must have a perfect understanding of those that are asleep?

(Now Plato's cave again crossed my mind.)

Sabina
"Whether You believe you can, or you can't, you are right."
User avatar
Sabina
 
Posts: 1752
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2009 7:11 am
Location: Vienna, Austria
Personality: Ambivert
Favorite book: Confession by Tolstoy + Chess novel by Zweig
Favorite movie: Matrix + Baraka
Things I like: the arts, free thinkers, creativity, passion, intelligence, honesty
State of Mind or Tendency: Artistic
Kudos: 61

Re: Choices

Postby Pat » Thu Jan 07, 2010 4:38 am

Sabina wrote:Hm.. those are definitely amongst the life's big topics.
In order to answer your question, I must first ask one myself though. :)
You know me... I like to ask questions...

How does one know if they are aware or awakened?

I am asking because if I assume that I am awakened, and therefore have a choice, then how can I know how it would be if I wasn't awakened?
What if I was born awakened while someone else sleeps through their entire life?
How can I even try to understand or guess what choices they have?
Or is it that if i am awakened I must have a perfect understanding of those that are asleep?

(Now Plato's cave again crossed my mind.)

Sabina


I am so tempted to say "exactly", but that would be too easy and not a decent reply to a very good thought.

I wonder if you would even be asking the question if you weren't aware... perhaps that is the answer.

I feel that many people are living in there own world not aware of anything but their own perception .. supplied by their own lives and experiences that they have never fully examined. May of whom do not have the tools to examine their lives or the world around them through no real fault of their own but simply by life.
So I ask you the question .... Why do some people become aware and others with similar experiences do not? Isn't it part of spiritual evolution?
:)
User avatar
Pat
 
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:06 am
Location: USA traveling
Personality: Extrovert
Favorite book: .
Favorite movie: .
Things I like: .
State of Mind or Tendency: Neutral
Kudos: 7

Re: Choices

Postby Sabina » Thu Jan 07, 2010 4:55 pm

Ah.. this talks brings back memories from years ago... :)

pat wrote:I feel that many people are living in there own world not aware of anything but their own perception .. supplied by their own lives and experiences that they have never fully examined. May of whom do not have the tools to examine their lives or the world around them through no real fault of their own but simply by life.

I feel the same way, Pat, and what intrigues me even more are people who think of themselves as awakened, or at least as someone who is in search of an awakening, hence thinking of themselves as spiritual people, yet they skip the most elementary step of self-reflection. Elementary and reoccurring.

pat wrote:Why do some people become aware and others with similar experiences do not? Isn't it part of spiritual evolution?

This is a huge question... and one that used to give me headache and heartache.
People often judge others based on their own way of looking at things, and so if they cannot imagine someone's motives to be pure as they, and they cannot imagine it because their own motives wouldn't be pure in the same instance, then they judge.

I have felt that kind of judgment many times, and it hurts, especially if it comes from someone you believe to be close. In hurts in two ways actually:
    1. One having to do with love and understanding. If someone misinterprets your motives, despite of countless explanations and clarifications, as well as a history that should speak for itself, then they obviously don't understand the essence of who you are. If they don't understand the essence of you, then how can they love you?
    2. If such a situation happens with a person that is close to you, especially if it happens more than once, then you gradually begin to realize that this person perceives life very differently from you. I do understand differences between people, the necessity and sometimes even beauty of these differences, however.. I think that a big part of me somehow always assumed that if someone is close to me, that they are automatically a kindred spirit. That is probably one of the reasons that I was always happy and enthusiastic with people, as well as completely open. Discussions on life, self-examination, talks of guilt or shame, you name it. I didn't have a problem discussing any of it. I used to think that I didn't expect anything in return, but that is not true. I expected the same kind of openness in return, and I still do. I saw my curiosity as a sign of love and interest, as that is how I would interpret someone else's curiosity. Realizing that a lot of people are incapable of being open in that manner has led to rude awakenings on more than one occasion.

You see what I'm doing here.. I have went slightly off-topic, and I still haven't answered your question. That could be called babbling as well... :)
I will stop for now before I write a novel.

Sabina
"Whether You believe you can, or you can't, you are right."
User avatar
Sabina
 
Posts: 1752
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2009 7:11 am
Location: Vienna, Austria
Personality: Ambivert
Favorite book: Confession by Tolstoy + Chess novel by Zweig
Favorite movie: Matrix + Baraka
Things I like: the arts, free thinkers, creativity, passion, intelligence, honesty
State of Mind or Tendency: Artistic
Kudos: 61

Re: Choices

Postby Sabina » Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:57 pm

Pat,
You asked: Why do some people become aware and others with similar experiences do not? Isn't it part of spiritual evolution?

Leonardo Da Vinci said:
There are three classes of people:
- Those who see.
- Those who see when they are shown.
- Those who do not see.

It's not really an answer to your question, it's rather a statement on how it is, so the question remains.
Do you have any thoughts as to why some people become aware and others with similar experiences do not?

Sabina
"Whether You believe you can, or you can't, you are right."
User avatar
Sabina
 
Posts: 1752
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2009 7:11 am
Location: Vienna, Austria
Personality: Ambivert
Favorite book: Confession by Tolstoy + Chess novel by Zweig
Favorite movie: Matrix + Baraka
Things I like: the arts, free thinkers, creativity, passion, intelligence, honesty
State of Mind or Tendency: Artistic
Kudos: 61

Re: Choices

Postby Ryan » Fri Jan 08, 2010 12:18 am

Pat & Sabina wrote:Do you have any thoughts as to why some people become aware and others with similar experiences do not?


I could assume the following:

    1. They are afraid of what they might find...
    2. They are missing a certain fundamental knowledge/experience/belief/whatever that would bring their attention to view those "similar experiences" in the proper perspective...
    3. They simply are not interested... they want to stay in the matrix because they like it better...

There are probably more reasons but most would probably be spin offs of fear... I think...
[R] If you don't understand something I said or why I said it... ask me.
If you don't want to understand something I said or why I said it... tell me.
User avatar
Ryan
 
Posts: 709
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2009 7:54 pm
Location: Vienna, Austria
Personality: Ambivert
Favorite book: no favorite book but favorite stories
Favorite movie: the Star Wars saga
Things I like: My family, nature, movies, games, music... more later
State of Mind or Tendency: Inspired
Kudos: 50

Re: Choices

Postby Pat » Fri Jan 08, 2010 12:56 am

Sabina wrote:Pat,
You asked: Why do some people become aware and others with similar experiences do not? Isn't it part of spiritual evolution?

Leonardo Da Vinci said:
There are three classes of people:
- Those who see.
- Those who see when they are shown.
- Those who do not see.

It's not really an answer to your question, it's rather a statement on how it is, so the question remains.
Do you have any thoughts as to why some people become aware and others with similar experiences do not?

Sabina


Honestly Sabina i believe we are born this way ... to know or have knowledge and awareness or not to it is part of our destination. It is not good or bad it just is.. We are all growing and exactly where we are suppose to be... depending on where you are looking from it may appear that some are ahead or more aware of others but in reality we are all where we need to be.
I love you all
pat
:)
User avatar
Pat
 
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:06 am
Location: USA traveling
Personality: Extrovert
Favorite book: .
Favorite movie: .
Things I like: .
State of Mind or Tendency: Neutral
Kudos: 7

Re: Choices

Postby Sabina » Fri Jan 08, 2010 1:19 am

Hi Pat,

What makes you believe that we are just born that way?

Sabina
"Whether You believe you can, or you can't, you are right."
User avatar
Sabina
 
Posts: 1752
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2009 7:11 am
Location: Vienna, Austria
Personality: Ambivert
Favorite book: Confession by Tolstoy + Chess novel by Zweig
Favorite movie: Matrix + Baraka
Things I like: the arts, free thinkers, creativity, passion, intelligence, honesty
State of Mind or Tendency: Artistic
Kudos: 61

Re: Choices

Postby Pat » Fri Jan 08, 2010 1:27 am

Sabina wrote:Hi Pat,

What makes you believe that we are just born that way?

Sabina

Sabina have you ever heard of t he term "I know that I know that i know" I think it is just a deep feeling that comes to us... there are things that comes to us with out proof or scientific answer.
I also think that those people who make poor choices do it with out knowledge. Then there is always karma..which puts us in the position to make the choices that help us learn and change.
:)
User avatar
Pat
 
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:06 am
Location: USA traveling
Personality: Extrovert
Favorite book: .
Favorite movie: .
Things I like: .
State of Mind or Tendency: Neutral
Kudos: 7

Re: Choices

Postby Sabina » Fri Jan 08, 2010 1:38 am

But that would mean that those "others" can never be awakened, and that - to me - sounds sad and unacceptable. I know you said it is not good or bad, it just is...

You mentioned karma. Does that apply to everyone in your opinion? So, to the awakened as well as the ones who are not?

If it applies to everyone, and has the purpose to help us learn and change, then wouldn't the learning and the changing also lead to an awakening at some point? Or do you see it that the learning and changing has a different purpose for those that are not awakened?

Sabina
"Whether You believe you can, or you can't, you are right."
User avatar
Sabina
 
Posts: 1752
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2009 7:11 am
Location: Vienna, Austria
Personality: Ambivert
Favorite book: Confession by Tolstoy + Chess novel by Zweig
Favorite movie: Matrix + Baraka
Things I like: the arts, free thinkers, creativity, passion, intelligence, honesty
State of Mind or Tendency: Artistic
Kudos: 61

Next

Return to Spirited Debate

Who is online

Registered users: Yahoo [Bot]

cron
StumbleUpon Digg Delicious Reddit Yahoo Google Live Facebook Twitter MySpace