Change & Fear

Metaphysical, spiritual, philosophical or mystical topics.
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Re: Change & Fear

Postby Sabina » Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:02 pm

I just had a funny thought.. let's say I want to help someone to learn to accept change and embrace it too, like with children maybe. I speak of it in words and show that attitude by example as well.
Then something unexpected happens, and they do accept change!
But, the funny part is, that then - for my personal reasons - it doesn't suit me, and I asked for it.
Conclusion?
Same old...
Be careful what you wish for..
:)
"Whether You believe you can, or you can't, you are right."
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Re: Change & Fear

Postby GenerousGeorge » Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:41 pm

Hey, what the heck,......do what God does....... have one build an Ark and drown the rest. =0o
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Re: Change & Fear

Postby mirjana » Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:44 am

Hi musketeers,
Nice talk and very appealing subject.
I agree Sabina that we should be very careful and responsible about that what we wish.
Then it goes perfectly well with that what GG said:
" ...In some synergistic way when I ask for that kind of help from a "higher power" I often get it in unexpected examples and ways. .."
Honesty with self is a key to accept change or to provoke change, I agree GG. Honesty connected with courage. Not always an easy thing, especially when many people are involved.

Personally, close to GG´s approach, I consult often I Ching or Book of Changes. I ask, I get the answer, after that I exclude dilemma and serened to the answer. Whenever I was able to do so, the final result was good. But I am not always able to do so, that is the problem.
As about helping others, when they ask, I respond always and the best way I can.
When they do not ask, in spite the logic which goes direction that both Ryan and GG pointed, that only who asks and is ready should get help, I do differently and when I think that there is a problem and people involved are close to me and I love them, I ask them if I could help somehow. If there is no reaction, I try with some helpful stories that are not personal.
Still, what ever we would like to do in order to help others, there are always two questions:
Do they need our help?
Who are we to think that we can help if not being asked?

The choice is personal and estimated by the nature of the character and therefore connected with lessons and consequences coming from that. This is one of traces that shows who we are and how we respond to life and people, which is quite connected with another topic What we do shows who we are what-we-do-shows-who-we-are-t37.html


Mirjana
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Re: Change & Fear

Postby Sabina » Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:01 am

All good points actually...

Mirjana wrote:Who are we to think that we can help if not being asked?

Kind, helpful, caring people.
That's one answer.

Arrogant, self-absorbed, pseudo-awakened people.
That's another answer.

Which is the truth??

Sabina

PS: As a light non-serious side note:

If it’s true that we are here to help others, then what exactly are the others here for?
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Re: Change & Fear

Postby mirjana » Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:24 am

Sabina wrote:
PS: As a light non-serious side note:

If it’s true that we are here to help others, then what exactly are the others here for?
As a light non serious side answer:

Others are here to help us to help them, so that at the end it is not clear who helped who.

Mirjana
PS: Answering your questions, I do hope that most people are nice, helpful and caring, and that from those who are not again a nice number will change with time in the same direction.
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Re: Change & Fear

Postby Metatron » Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:46 am

Sabina wrote:All good points actually...

If it’s true that we are here to help others, then what exactly are the others here for?


Well, we are the others :P Isn't a bit egoistic to think of ourselves as "us" and the rest "others"? From their perspective, we're others as well.

I think this should be a two-side thing, helping only for the sake of helping is not helping for the right reason. I should expect something in return, because on the long run, it will be less of a stress.

Even though helping others might be a sort of satifaction to some, realizing after several years that we were expected to help but didn't recieve help in return is rather disappointing.

Personal experience ;0)
Last edited by Metatron on Tue Jan 19, 2010 2:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Change & Fear

Postby Sabina » Tue Jan 19, 2010 2:28 am

Metatron wrote:Well, we are the others :P Isn't a bit egoistic to think of ourselves as "us" and the rest "others"? From their perspective, we're others as well.

Yes, but only if they have/feel the desire to help as well.
Not everyone does.

Metatron wrote:I think this should be a two-side thing, helping only for the sake of helping is not helping for the right reason. I should expect something in return, because on the long run, it will be less of a stress.

Ok, imagine two people, A and B.
A wants to help B.
B doesn't want to help anyone, and also doesn't believe they need anyone's help.
A wants to help B, because A thinks that if they help B, then B will be happier, hence both of them will be happier. Both, because it makes A happy to see B happy.

Does this make more sense?

Sabina
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Re: Change & Fear

Postby GenerousGeorge » Tue Jan 19, 2010 7:05 am

There is an old Chinese proverb which says......"Why do you hate me so? I never tried to help you."

80S
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Re: Change & Fear

Postby Sabina » Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:27 pm

GenerousGeorge wrote:There is an old Chinese proverb which says......"Why do you hate me so? I never tried to help you."

80S


LOL!!!
Hmm...

George,

I have heard variations of that before.. based on other people's experiences, but I have since then had experiences of my own as well, and I just don't (want to) believe that.
Or I do believe it, but only to a certain extent: I believe that it can turn out that way, obviously, as it happened like that to enough people.
My experiences were different though, so I also believe that it doesn't have to be that way.

If it can happen, but doesn't have to happen, then what does that mean?
On what does the outcome depend? Is it just the individuals' personalities, or does it maybe also have to do with how "the helping" is done, or with something else?
"Whether You believe you can, or you can't, you are right."
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Re: Change & Fear

Postby Metatron » Tue Jan 19, 2010 3:53 pm

Sabina wrote:
Metatron wrote:Well, we are the others :P Isn't a bit egoistic to think of ourselves as "us" and the rest "others"? From their perspective, we're others as well.

Yes, but only if they have/feel the desire to help as well.
Not everyone does.


Ok, I see your point. Funnily enough I can't think of anything against that 80|

Ok, imagine two people, A and B.
A wants to help B.
B doesn't want to help anyone, and also doesn't believe they need anyone's help.
A wants to help B, because A thinks that if they help B, then B will be happier, hence both of them will be happier. Both, because it makes A happy to see B happy.


I understand what you mean, I was merely pointing out that if A keeps doing this for a long time, and B won't change in it's attitude, won't be willing to help even later, A might start to feel a bit unapreciated/used. It happened to me. Of course, not everyone is like me, but I think that B should have the desire to help, even if just for the sake of not giving A the wrong impression and to keep the relationship. Does that make sense? :D
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