Can anyone really be selfless?

Metaphysical, spiritual, philosophical or mystical topics.
The forum for talks about the intangible universe, the human mind, and the soul.

Re: Can anyone really be selfless?

Postby Metatron » Wed Apr 14, 2010 11:55 pm

mirjana wrote:As the need to be loved is an universal need of humans, then it seems that with that in mind everything we do is because we want to be loved. So it is not selfless but motivating to be more self. 80S


Universal or not... the need to eat and drink is also universal :P In order to live a good life, we need others, whether we call it love or something else, doesn't matter. It will always be the same - we naturally want to satisfy as many of our needs as possible, so that we can have a good life.
Who the hell is it you try to impress?

All you have to do is learn to care less!
User avatar
Metatron
 
Posts: 177
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:21 pm
Location: Slovakia
Personality: Ambivert
State of Mind or Tendency: Sleepy
Kudos: 13

Re: Can anyone really be selfless?

Postby Heidi » Thu Apr 15, 2010 12:12 am

Sabina wrote:
Regardless of all the advice and wisdom... some people live and die fooling themselves til the bitter end. For those who do, everything I wrote above doesn't really matter, does it?


Every person's life purpose is different from another's. One who fools himself is still at the beginning, while the other who is able to analyze things is more "advanced." Who can tell which level each one of us is on, and how much he has to go until perfection? What I see as "foolish" someone who is less advanced may see as "wise" and vice versa.

As for selfless actions, I think there aren't such. Since I put myself in something, since I devote thought, energy, effort and/or emotion I always gain something. It could be experience, someone's love or respect, or even simple pleasure out of doing it.

Even a hermit, living away from the world, does what he does for himself. It can't be selfless, not to say that this could be selfish...
User avatar
Heidi
 
Posts: 120
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 3:18 am
Location: Athens, Greece
State of Mind or Tendency: Cool
Kudos: 17

Re: Can anyone really be selfless?

Postby Sabina » Thu Apr 15, 2010 12:38 am

If selfless means to do something with little or no concern for oneself (either/or), then that is definitely possible.
How could anyone say that doing things with little concern for oneself is not possible? We do all kinds of things with little concern for ourselves, at least in my experience.
A mother who does something for her child, for instance. That is one of the most selfless examples of love. Perhaps not with every woman who was ever a mother, but there are enough examples.

I was once on a train with a cousin. I was 17 years old and she was 9. We were traveling from one country to another. At the border the customs/border control asked her for papers signed by her parents and notarized, that she is allowed to leave the country. It was the weekend, her parents didn't get those papers, they thought nobody would ask. But someone did ask.
The border patrol told her that they can't let her leave the country and that she has to leave the train and travel back.
How is she supposed to travel back?
With what?
With whom?
She had no money, and neither did I.
That was not their concern....
She was told she had to get out of the train immediately and ask someone how to get back.
We are talking here about a matter of seconds.
I was 17, not her guardian or anything, not responsible for her at all. I had my own journey and plans... there was no time to think about the right decision or the wisest decision...
Oh.. and I had plenty of luggage and a cat with me and a huge rabbit cage, with a rabbit in it! Can you picture it? Perfect...

She and I looked at each other and we both left the train.
"Whether You believe you can, or you can't, you are right."
User avatar
Sabina
 
Posts: 1752
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2009 7:11 am
Location: Vienna, Austria
Personality: Ambivert
Favorite book: Confession by Tolstoy + Chess novel by Zweig
Favorite movie: Matrix + Baraka
Things I like: the arts, free thinkers, creativity, passion, intelligence, honesty
State of Mind or Tendency: Artistic
Kudos: 61

Re: Can anyone really be selfless?

Postby Metatron » Thu Apr 15, 2010 12:50 am

Sabina wrote:If selfless means to do something with little or no concern for oneself (either/or), then that is definitely possible.
How could anyone say that doing things with little concern for oneself is not possible? We do all kinds of things with little concern for ourselves, at least in my experience.
A mother who does something for her child, for instance. That is one of the most selfless examples of love. Perhaps not with every woman who was ever a mother, but there are enough examples.


Well, can you imagine what you would feel like if you abandoned your Kit... I mean kid :P You'd feel terrible, you'd be wondering what happened to it and so on. Well... Even if it is not your initial thought, it is definitely there... Plus, maternal love is an instinct, it's something most mothers automatically do, it is to make sure your child grows up to be a strong individual. We put it on a higher level because we're humans, but essentially that's what it is.

And regarding your story, aside from the fact that it was a cool thing to do, I need to "analyze it" as the person who initiated this topic :P And again I don't see it as a selfless act. By the time you were 17 you've already had a personality, so your decision came with who you were... You were a person who would have been bothered with what happened to the girl... It was a prevention of personal "stress"kinda... It's getting late, I'm getting worse with words, sowwy lol
Who the hell is it you try to impress?

All you have to do is learn to care less!
User avatar
Metatron
 
Posts: 177
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:21 pm
Location: Slovakia
Personality: Ambivert
State of Mind or Tendency: Sleepy
Kudos: 13

Re: Can anyone really be selfless?

Postby Sabina » Thu Apr 15, 2010 12:54 am

So once someone has a personality nothing they do can be a selfless act anymore, is that correct?
What if being selfless is part of your personality?
Or is that not possible, in your opinion?
"Whether You believe you can, or you can't, you are right."
User avatar
Sabina
 
Posts: 1752
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2009 7:11 am
Location: Vienna, Austria
Personality: Ambivert
Favorite book: Confession by Tolstoy + Chess novel by Zweig
Favorite movie: Matrix + Baraka
Things I like: the arts, free thinkers, creativity, passion, intelligence, honesty
State of Mind or Tendency: Artistic
Kudos: 61

Re: Can anyone really be selfless?

Postby Metatron » Thu Apr 15, 2010 1:01 am

Sabina wrote:What if being selfless is part of your personality?


In my opinion no, it's not possible. Because it is part of your very nature to be selfish. In very, very borderline situations you think of yourself, or if you risk your life, your brain takes into consideration the possible outcome of what could happen if you didn't. I have noticed on myself that my brain thinks a lot faster "than me", or, faster than I perceive it. Some thoughts are born before I actually put them into words, I think if there is a situation when someone risks their life, it all happens even faster. We know what adrenaline does. We just don't get it enough to realize the difference between our behavior then and in normal situations. There is always a positive outcome in saving someone's life and I think if someone says they did it without thinking, it's a lie. The thought process happens, there is no decision making without thought processes. There is a reason why your brain moves hundreds of muscles... Which means some kind of reasoning has to happen.
Who the hell is it you try to impress?

All you have to do is learn to care less!
User avatar
Metatron
 
Posts: 177
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:21 pm
Location: Slovakia
Personality: Ambivert
State of Mind or Tendency: Sleepy
Kudos: 13

Re: Can anyone really be selfless?

Postby Sabina » Thu Apr 15, 2010 1:04 am

Ok, but we know that our brains and our intellects are not all the same. So even though we all work our (brain) muscles, we don't produce the same results.
So tell me, why is that?
"Whether You believe you can, or you can't, you are right."
User avatar
Sabina
 
Posts: 1752
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2009 7:11 am
Location: Vienna, Austria
Personality: Ambivert
Favorite book: Confession by Tolstoy + Chess novel by Zweig
Favorite movie: Matrix + Baraka
Things I like: the arts, free thinkers, creativity, passion, intelligence, honesty
State of Mind or Tendency: Artistic
Kudos: 61

Re: Can anyone really be selfless?

Postby Metatron » Thu Apr 15, 2010 1:12 am

Well, we don't live in the same environments, we don't have the same parents, we're not parts of the same culture... tons and tons of differences. Cultures have been established by people, traditions too, and as people are fallible, so are ways of thinking, ideals, basically everything that we get from the outside world. We can't be the same... We're too complex for that. We forget that sometimes when we make statements about how things work (which I have done in this topic as well, but I am developing a thought line on the go and trying to get across what makes sense to me, which can obviously be totally wrong...)
Who the hell is it you try to impress?

All you have to do is learn to care less!
User avatar
Metatron
 
Posts: 177
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:21 pm
Location: Slovakia
Personality: Ambivert
State of Mind or Tendency: Sleepy
Kudos: 13

Re: Can anyone really be selfless?

Postby Sabina » Thu Apr 15, 2010 1:16 am

Yes, there are all kinds of things that influence our lives and our personalities.
Some of us are courageous, some are not.
Some are full of energy most of the time, others are tired most of the time.
Some are cheerful by nature, some are dark and rather pessimistic.

With that in mind, isn't it plausible that while one person thinks it is impossible to be selfless, for another it is the most natural thing in the world?
Take it as a theoretical question.. Is it possible for two people to be as different in regards to selflessness as we know people to be in other aspects?
"Whether You believe you can, or you can't, you are right."
User avatar
Sabina
 
Posts: 1752
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2009 7:11 am
Location: Vienna, Austria
Personality: Ambivert
Favorite book: Confession by Tolstoy + Chess novel by Zweig
Favorite movie: Matrix + Baraka
Things I like: the arts, free thinkers, creativity, passion, intelligence, honesty
State of Mind or Tendency: Artistic
Kudos: 61

Re: Can anyone really be selfless?

Postby Metatron » Thu Apr 15, 2010 1:21 am

Theoretically, it should be possible. After all, people can commit suicide, if I were to take it from a theoretical point of view and leave out the possibility of mental disorders, I would say suicides are impossible.

So yes, I guess it is possible for someone to act totally selflessly, but... I do believe there is something wrong with such a person. Not "wrong"as in bad, but wrong as in... abnormal.

As a bisexual person I don't consider homosexuality to be bad, but I do say that there is something wrong with such people, therefore with me too. But wrong as in different, abnormal...
Who the hell is it you try to impress?

All you have to do is learn to care less!
User avatar
Metatron
 
Posts: 177
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:21 pm
Location: Slovakia
Personality: Ambivert
State of Mind or Tendency: Sleepy
Kudos: 13

PreviousNext

Return to Spirited Debate

Who is online

Registered users: No registered users

cron
StumbleUpon Digg Delicious Reddit Yahoo Google Live Facebook Twitter MySpace