Beliefs

Metaphysical, spiritual, philosophical or mystical topics.
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Re: Beliefs

Postby Metatron » Sun Jan 17, 2010 8:18 pm

Sabina wrote:
Metatron wrote:Well, I guess we're not talking about the same kind of knowledge. I meant science, particularly quantum physics.

Quantum physics... interesting... You mean like the quantum mind? :)


Do I sense a hint of irony in that sentence? :P Quantum physics has become an important field of physics, because it is more and more successful in describing how the world works on subatomic, even subnuclear level. If the experiments done by the Large Hadron Collider were successful, we might get closer to understanding how the world started (or might not).

So.. are you saying unless there is physical material proof, then you don't believe in the existence of God?


Not proof, evidence. But yeah, you got it right. I want sufficient evidence that there is indeed a God and evidence that this or that religion was right all along.

You don't like that they are being fanatics, and that they don't approve of those who are different, right?
You see what I mean?
So by being an anti-religion-fanatic, and not approving of them and the ways in which they see things differently from you is kind of similar like that what you don't like about them. It's just the other side of the coin.


I know what you mean, but I wouldn't claim that I haven't seen things from their perspective. As I've mentioned in my intro, my Grandmother was a roman catholic fundamentalist. And I was a theist for a long time myself, I believed in god and I prayed; heck, I still go to Church from time to time and I'm going to a christian summer camp this year, as I have in the previous years. I know the subject very well from both sides, I more or less know the Bible and I have knowledge, though not as indepth, of other religions as well. I am not trying to convert anyone, I only defend myself when someone tries to convert me. So I deffinitely wouldn't say I am the same thing, but in a different color :)

I have seen what positive effecs religion can have on an individual; my said Grandmother lost her husband and son about 15 years ago, I have vague memories of them both. She was also slowly losing some of her friends, but she remained to be the strong woman throughout the years because she believed in God. She was also great in helping people, because she believed God wanted her to do so. But that doesn't make it real, we know how powerful the human mind is (take the placebo effect as an example).
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Re: Beliefs

Postby Sabina » Mon Jan 18, 2010 1:35 am

Metatron wrote:Do I sense a hint of irony in that sentence? :P Quantum physics has become an important field of physics, because it is more and more successful in describing how the world works on subatomic, even subnuclear level. If the experiments done by the Large Hadron Collider were successful, we might get closer to understanding how the world started (or might not).


Possibly, but probably not for the reason you think.
Quantum physics is a very interesting field, and I didn't expect that to be brought up as evidence of "no God" of all things. And you earlier mentioning that you believe our mind to be finite is another reason why I am surprised to hear you mention quantum physics or the quantum mind now. :)
If anything it leans more to the other direction, in my opinion anyway. A unity of science and spirituality. It is interesting, though it is also not the "ultimate answer".
There are supposed revelations all across the globe, all kinds of people have figured it out, and their solution is an ultimate new secret. In a way, a lot of people are behaving in the same way like the religious fanatics have for ages. Many of these things are indeed interesting and can provide some insight, I just don't think there is a need to get fanatical about anything.

Metatron wrote:
So.. are you saying unless there is physical material proof, then you don't believe in the existence of God?

Not proof, evidence. But yeah, you got it right. I want sufficient evidence that there is indeed a God and evidence that this or that religion was right all along.


"God existing" and "religion being right all along" are two completely different things.
My view is..
God exists.
Religion wasn't right all along.
Mystics of various religions were closer to things than the main stream religious mass.
And I think it is important to not mix these things up.
God and religion is not the same thing.

Metatron wrote:I know what you mean, but I wouldn't claim that I haven't seen things from their perspective.

I didn't say you didn't see things from their perspective. I said be careful not to do things their way, only from another perspective, meaning be careful not to assume an approach similar to their approach. That's not the same thing.

Sabina
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Re: Beliefs

Postby Metatron » Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:54 pm

Sabina wrote:
Metatron wrote:Do I sense a hint of irony in that sentence? :P Quantum physics has become an important field of physics, because it is more and more successful in describing how the world works on subatomic, even subnuclear level. If the experiments done by the Large Hadron Collider were successful, we might get closer to understanding how the world started (or might not).


Possibly, but probably not for the reason you think.
Quantum physics is a very interesting field, and I didn't expect that to be brought up as evidence of "no God" of all things. And you earlier mentioning that you believe our mind to be finite is another reason why I am surprised to hear you mention quantum physics or the quantum mind now. :)
If anything it leans more to the other direction, in my opinion anyway. A unity of science and spirituality. It is interesting, though it is also not the "ultimate answer".
There are supposed revelations all across the globe, all kinds of people have figured it out, and their solution is an ultimate new secret. In a way, a lot of people are behaving in the same way like the religious fanatics have for ages. Many of these things are indeed interesting and can provide some insight, I just don't think there is a need to get fanatical about anything.


I must admit that even though I've read lots about quantum mechanics, I've never even seen a reference to the quantum mind, though I've looked it up since. However, I haven't given it enough time yet and it seems a tad complicated, so I can't really react to that.

I can say however, that by finite mind I meant that we don't know certain things that could have a large effect on our opinions. By saying "how can our finite mind comprehend that what is infinite?" I meant that we have a hard time even imagining what an endless Universe looks like, I mean, we are used to things having a beginning and an end, even in maths infinity is used only as a concept, not as something concrete. So if we don't know (objectively) what we expect to see when we ask for a demonstration of infinite power, how could we recognize it such, and not just a very large supernatural, but finite power?

"God existing" and "religion being right all along" are two completely different things.
My view is..
God exists.
Religion wasn't right all along.
Mystics of various religions were closer to things than the main stream religious mass.
And I think it is important to not mix these things up.
God and religion is not the same thing.


Yes, I am well aware of that, I am also aware that my argument wasn't well worded. I didn't mean to imply that if a god was proven to exist, it would neccessarily have to follow that a religion was right. One might be right, but might as well be not.

I didn't say you didn't see things from their perspective. I said be careful not to do things their way, only from another perspective, meaning be careful not to assume an approach similar to their approach. That's not the same thing.


Ok, I get it. Well, I hope I'm not doing things their way, or at least I didn't notice I do.
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