Beliefs and Acceptance

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Re: Beliefs

Postby GenerousGeorge » Tue Mar 02, 2010 7:46 pm

"When we discover new information...which happens on a daily basis...even when we are not aware of it, we are adding to the subconscious and the subconscious process will disregard the information or accept it based on our emotional understanding."

Aha! =0o Soooooo....... thats why Christianity, other religions and cults get control of their people while the members of the cult still retain the intelligence and ability to funtion productively to provide goods, tithes and services etc. to the organization.

Somehow there is an emotionally energized compartmentalized part of their brain, conscious whatever...... that acts kind of like a govenor on a car's engine that "limits" and does not allow them to consider certain "sacred" some things in a critical way (no matter how 80S S NUTSO 80S 80S ??????? =0o )

"All beliefs whether tangible or a belief of faith are processed through our emotions on a subconscious level for the most part...every choice we make in life comes from a series of processes mostly based in the subconscious where our experiences have created an emotional base line in which our decisions are made."

<3 That explains a lot to me. In my experience there are very few people who are willing to suffer the discomfort to their basic emotional beliefs that provide them a feeling of security in this world ....... and the next.

The next evolutionary advance may come in the area of more and more people that are capable of and willing to do that. My scientific.....very scientific study of that tells me that there probably, most likely, EXACTLY 5.3489 % of the population who caw do that now. =0o <3 =0o

That's my story and I'm sticking to it. =0@
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Re: Beliefs

Postby Sabina » Tue Mar 02, 2010 8:32 pm

I agree George, I know it is not easy at all for some people to let go of their beliefs.
I generally see it as a gift if someone helps me look at something from a different perspective.
I mean literally.
Like they put a big beautifully wrapped package in front of me.. and I feel gratitude for that, each time it happens.
That's what sharing is all about, right? Being open-minded enough to receive this gift. The trick is to keep that up at all times, and even be willing to accept in a moment when you think that you are actually the one who is giving the gift... :)
;0)
I think this part is especially difficult for some people, because they prefer to see themselves as The Giver.
That is a noble role and sometimes difficult to let go of, that's all.

Real communication is a two-way street. There are all kinds of communication, but ideally.. both sides should listen and be open-minded.

Sabina
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Re: Beliefs

Postby Leahann » Tue Mar 02, 2010 8:36 pm

George...I love your expressions and how you bring these concepts into view on a practical life level.

Aha! Soooooo....... thats why Christianity, other religions and cults get control of their people while the members of the cult still retain the intelligence and ability to funtion productively to provide goods, tithes and services etc. to the organization.

Somehow there is an emotionally energized compartmentalized part of their brain, conscious whatever...... that acts kind of like a govenor on a car's engine that "limits" and does not allow them to consider certain "sacred" some things in a critical way (no matter how S NUTSO ??????? )


If I'm understanding your comment right, I'd have to agree.

As I'm most familiar with Christianity I'll also use this as an example or base line for my comment.

If I have an emotionally re enforced belief that the Devil will try and sway me away from God by worldly means, and while it may appear to be true...the belief is that it can not be because the Devil will create things to damn me to hell.

Therefore the subconscious will reject the idea that the Bible is not 100% the word of God regardless of the scientific data, or research findings because the emotional belief system will reject the thought without question...based on the conviction that if it were accepted that I would go to hell if I did.

:)...hope that makes sense.

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Re: Beliefs

Postby GenerousGeorge » Tue Mar 02, 2010 8:48 pm

Perfect sense! <3
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Re: Beliefs

Postby mirjana » Tue Mar 02, 2010 9:20 pm

Hi Leahann,
Thank you for answering my question, or better to say turning attention back to my question. Still, I was not able to figure your post exactly as an answer to my question, but more as presentation of some additional aspects of beliefs and more from the point of observing others and not answering from personal experience. And my question was put in order to get our personal experiences in regard to this how we behave in relation to the person who we had discredited previously.
In this sense, Sabina’s answer was more personal in her response to George on Tue Mar 02, 2010 8:32 pm. Thank you, Sabina.
Leahann wrote:I am a firm believer in examining our beliefs on a regular basis and consider all new information, even if not accurate to see if our belief stands up...and I'm also able to say that at times I cannot see the relevance to new information...and often do not see...so my belief will remain in tact until I can see...if that makes sense.

I can imagine that with the word “firm” you wanted to underline readiness to examine your beliefs, although this word for itself actually expresses the opposite.
In that sense we get wonderful lessons from the universe which is in the constant change. Actually, change is the only constant thing and according to that my answer to my question would be that I am not only open to changes but not firm in my beliefs. I have them, but they are not my mindset. One of my favorite books is “The Little Prince” as it expresses beautifully the limitations of firmed beliefs. Thanks to my children I have learned how easy, even if we put many questions and get answers, we can confuse the real truth with our personal beliefs that are coloring it.
Previously in my praxis I used to work with people talking to them and helping them to figure their answers based on my questions. Later, when I was introduced to PEAT, I realized how personal I was before even if I thought I was not, because my questions were also based on my beliefs. So, I was so arrogant to think that my beliefs were so much better than those of my clients, and therefore enough for them to find their answers and their truth based on my personal lines. Later, when I learned other techniques that put completely out my personal involvement and clients were those who for themselves found their truth, I realized how wrong I was before that experience. And in the time when those were my beliefs, I was very convinced to be right. Now I am not convinced any more in anything that I am right and that what I know is a truth to stick to.
There are so many things that exist either we know about them or not. Telling to self that because I do not know about something is the prove that is not existing is the same like insisting that something which is somebody else’s experience and not mine is not so, as I have not experienced it like that.
When I put my question my intention was to turn our attention to that aspect of being personally wrong because of being so convinced not to be. I only hope that with this answer I at least gave you my answer about that.

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Re: Beliefs

Postby Randall » Tue Mar 02, 2010 9:52 pm

WIVES TO THE RESCUE! Haha you too George and Mirjana

It’s no wonder we married them Ryan, we needed someone to make sense of what we were trying to say. LOL
80S
Thank you so very much, all of you.

With my initial post, I thought to lay the groundwork for where this discussion has gone today. My bafflement was that the idea of acceptance hit a hard rock wall a few people. For me it’s a fact because acceptance is the act of accepting and unless you have accepted something it cant become a belief. I also believe it’s a fact that we need to “accept” just like we need air to breath. Nothing from Nothing is Nothing. You cant give what you don’t have. To me its important to note this when you start exploring what and why and where. Our beliefs about everything around us come from a subconscious acceptance of something.

Your discussion today is why its relative.

"All beliefs whether tangible or a belief of faith are processed through our emotions on a subconscious level for the most part...every choice we make in life comes from a series of processes mostly based in the subconscious where our experiences have created an emotional base line in which our decisions are made."

That explains a lot to me. In my experience there are very few people who are willing to suffer the discomfort to their basic emotional beliefs that provide them a feeling of security in this world ....... and the next.


I’m glad that this discussion has come to the place it has… some fun things will come of it I’m sure.
This was a beautiful exchange you two. =0)

Mirjana said

Peeling effects in order to come to the causes is worth our efforts in any aspects of life. Beliefs are very supportive for this kind of work and bring amazing results, far different from the starting point.
I would connect it with the primary curiosity of the child who is never satisfied with the answer to the first question and always asks "why". Until reaching the void, with no questions and answers, we have a certain emotional charge that forms our beliefs. It can be connected with our soul from the previous lives, (like Dermot said), but still, again there are recorded memories connected with the experiences (beliefs) from those previous lives. That is actually the very core. But this very core also has emotional charge which triggered the whole process of reactions, with beliefs as one of them manifested in this life.
As we are energy and vibrations, only by following our music backwards we shall come to the very first note of our music.

:) Leahann actually went to a seminar not that long ago where they talked about this very idea and that of genetic memory. There was a government funded group that came to share some of their findings and how by utilizing the information they had discovered was helping them work with the Native American Indians that suffer from substance abuse. By utilizing traditional Indian beliefs and social behaviors, many of them were getting better and healing, EVEN those that had no other tie to those beliefs than their blood line.
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Re: Beliefs

Postby Leahann » Tue Mar 02, 2010 11:34 pm

Mirjana,

Still, I was not able to figure your post exactly as an answer to my question, but more as presentation of some additional aspects of beliefs and more from the point of observing others and not answering from personal experience.


I was initially going that direction, however there was so much going on in the thread, and in a sense my experience has taught me that if I stay objective (I think that is the right word to use?), and bring in observations as well as personal experiences to a degree that it seems to be easier to relate to a varied group of people.

Saying that...I'd be happy to also share some personal experience, and how my emotions played out in such a situation.

It has been many years ago now, but in my early twenties I started to adhere to a Christian belief system...no particular group although I tended towards a more open or liberal approach.

At the time my mother whom I had a rocky relationship to begin with was involved in the "New Age Movement" ... back before we started to refer to it as a spiritualist movement...lol back in the day when I'd consider some of the things fluffy.

She got into channellings by Seth and Ramtha (Not sure I spelled that correctly), and was studying crystals and meditation, alternative healing etc.

One of the arguments we had was over the concept of being #1 in your own life and that we had control over our outcome...that we in fact choose to come here, and choose our families, that we are in control as well as it was ok to want money and to enjoy life.

So my argument based on my emotional belief at the time (charged with my anger and judgment of my mother personally) was that we only God can choose for us where we will go and what family we will be born into and what our paths in life will be. I accused her of being very selfish and full of the Devil etc etc etc.

You can imagine perhaps that I was rather ruthless and quite cruel at times when we discussed or argued these things.

While it took some time, and many layers peeled of my personal onion, but one by one I began to see and while I still don't agree with some of the ideals she posed at the time but I learned that I was very wrong in my assessment and in my beliefs.

My reaction to this information was one shock to be honest and embarrassment for not seeing and being so pushy about my beliefs at the time, and when I was able and we sat down to discuss these things again...years later as it took some real time for these realizations to take hold...I was able to apologize for my behavior and by then explain why I had thought as I had.

It was a really humbling set of events in my life and I learned a great deal about being too firm in my beliefs.

Certainly not all of my beliefs are "wrong" based on current data, however I realize that tomorrow we may discover that the earth is square...who know's.

Also...you mentioned my usage of the word Firm...and while I agree in it's connotations I'll say that in this case I do feel inflexible on that particular topic and currently am not open to change in that area...:)...which perhaps maybe something to examine, however at the moment it serves me as it reminds me to continue to come back to my beliefs and question them so that I may continue to grow and become a better person.

Based on my personality and the way I think I need to be firm about certain things that assist me to be open about others. I know it probably does not make too much sense.

OK...now did I answer the question as you had intended?

Thank You

Leahann
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Re: Beliefs

Postby mirjana » Wed Mar 03, 2010 12:20 am

Leahann,
Yes you did, thank you for that. =0) Thank you also for explaining the reason and the way of using the word firm, which I completely understand.
Your example with your mother is a great example as it is almost an archetype for changing beliefs. I do not know why, but mother-daughter relationship has many catches that most people describe as a primary rivalry. It has always been strange to me why it is so, but as a result in my life and knowing very close people around, it seems to be true. I love my mother very much but I was very judgmental toward some of her beliefs, mostly because of her exclusive way that hadn't given much space for change. As younger I was, I had less understanding for her beliefs. Over life, I came quite close to some of her beliefs, including my firm position to some of my beliefs when I was in some of discussions with my kids. Then my kids would tell me “you sound like your mother". Before it would be disaster for me. Today it is not.
Today I can understand almost all her beliefs as I am able to put them into the perspective of her and not my life, her and not my life experiences and her way, need or ability to change them. The moment I was able to look at her like that, the energy changed and we are now both in so called teacher/student role, sharing our experiences and learning from each other based on that sharing.
Thank you, Leahann, for bringing our mothers to this topic, as I love this little moment of being in thoughts with mine.


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Re: Beliefs

Postby Ryan » Wed Mar 03, 2010 2:34 am

Ok... to make clear my standpoint a little better I present Deepak Chopra on beliefs:



Now, as I have somewhat pointed out in the topic of "Faith" and in "The Bridges of Faith" topic I make a difference of Faith and Belief and I have faith in nothing.

Faith, for me, is not based upon fact or experience.
Belief, for me, is based upon fact or experience.

So, in the video Deepak Chopra is referring to Faith...

This is my belief in viewing myself... there is no point to having faith in myself or accepting my self... I am, I exist, I am real... there is not the option to reject or accept myself. The whole presentation as to my beliefs in electricity, gravity, electromagnetism, prejudice being wrong, or whatever leading to my own need to accept my self is unreasonable and invalid because I am just as real as all those other things.
[R] If you don't understand something I said or why I said it... ask me.
If you don't want to understand something I said or why I said it... tell me.
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Re: Beliefs

Postby Randall » Wed Mar 03, 2010 4:49 am

:) I appreciate your sharing your belief Ryan and I could still debate this with you but at this point its become counter productive, at least in this thread. However, if you would like to continue this further we can start another thread?

I like Deepak a great deal and I accept many of the things he shares. It was a good video =0)
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