Beliefs and Acceptance

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Re: Beliefs

Postby Ryan » Mon Mar 01, 2010 7:13 am

OK... now we are back to the beginning where I initially stated my confusion... I said...

Ryan wrote:Ok... I'm having trouble following this line of thought...

Is it that you are saying that ( individually speaking ) we create a belief system that we think we will be accepted by all those we love/know and ourselves?

If so, then to disprove this theory all that would need to be shown is a way of going about things to which those that we love/know are opposed, correct? Or is it if I can prove that I have done something that those I love/know do not accept then I myself accept it and there again it proves your point? If so, then the only way I can disprove your theory is to behave in a way that I myself reject?


To which I concluded...
Ryan wrote:Anyway... this is the point of my confusion... can you please help me understand a little better? Not that my goal is to simply disprove your theory but that is my approach to testing the validity of a theory... because if it is a theory that leaves no other option but to be correct, it always seems just like a well worded philosophical statement and nothing more. Like the whole "everything is exactly as it has to be and could not be any different" approach as to explain why things are the way they are. To me such statements are like saying "a circle is infinite as it has no beginning and no end" and then drawing a circle on a piece of paper and saying "look I am holding infinity in my hand". I believe we have choices and our choices dictate how things will turn out and if a theory leaves no room for "choice" then it is not valid.


So...is the theory that confined that in order to disprove it I have to reject myself?
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Re: Beliefs

Postby Randall » Mon Mar 01, 2010 7:19 am

LOL and talking about this with you is a real test. What your saying to me is that it has nothing to do with yourself or others.... they just popped in there one day and you hold them with out them supporting you in your acceptance of who you are as a person.


so how did they get there ryan? and why do you hold them if its not what I have suggested?
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Re: Beliefs

Postby Ryan » Mon Mar 01, 2010 7:28 am

I have some of my beliefs because it just seems right...

Why does it seem right?(prejudice as an example)

Because we are all human and there isn't a need for such separations between us. These things are responsible for all kinds of atrocities towards people and no matter how many historical lessons we have been taught as to how wrong this approach is, society fails to grasp it and instead finds ways to support their current prejudice... whatever it might be.
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Re: Beliefs

Postby Randall » Mon Mar 01, 2010 7:33 am

rolling my eyes....

just seems right
nothing more than that


no, it has nothing to do with supporting you.... 80S
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Re: Beliefs

Postby Ryan » Mon Mar 01, 2010 8:31 am

Yes, it seems right... doesn't it?
Or do you disagree? You feel that it is right to have prejudice against people?

Of course it doesn't have anything to do with me... as I pointed out earlier, I fall in the category of people that is least discriminated against. I only stand to lose through speaking out against all forms of discrimination... or whose acceptance do I stand to gain in your opinion?
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Re: Beliefs

Postby GenerousGeorge » Mon Mar 01, 2010 10:05 am

Okay guys, Lets take prejudice as our test case on this........ I have developed a personal belief about prejudice and I think it may have come from the empathy I developed from the times I have been treated in a prejudicial way mysel

Since I have already experienced that pain by being treated unfairly from time to time, especially when I was younger by other kids, I know how it feels, it does not feel good. Now, since I have experienced it, there is some part of me that is pained all over again again as if it was happening to me, when I see others being prejudiced against, or read about in book or see it on the news.

Now ......... the question is if I had not experienced that pain first hand for myself would I
somehow still have been able to develop a belief that prejudice is wrong?

What would I base that on? I'm not saying that could not happen, but it is a lot easier to understand why I have that belief from the personal experience standpoint, than merely an academic understanding of the theory of prejudice.

Or that I somehow go that belief by a kind of "Osmosis" or even some yet unexplainable communication with a higher power with which God has somehow implanted in my being a value and belief system that I can draw on and recognize with the proper stimuli.

One example of that kind of belief is the Christians and apologists like C. S. Lewis that claim that the Christian God is the only source of these kinds of values and beliefs and without the benfit of God's help, we are doomed as immoral and evil sinners.

Sooooo......do I dislike prejudice because I don't like the empathetic pain it cause me when I see it inflicted on others or.....the pain I experience just thinking about that being done to others......or is it from a kind of an academic, analytical approach that tells me it is wrong or.......

is it by some almost magical or at least supernatural process that gives us these qualities from a power greater than ourselves. Is it in our genetic stucture, or is it all learned behaviour or is it God.......or a combination of all those things.

If you put me on a lie detector and told me I had to get the right answer or else??? =0o My most probable answer would be that it is learned behaviour somewhat influenced by our genetic evolutionary path and all of that was greatly influenced by experience with other people........

And that in addition to that there was an X FACTOR that God has taught me these values by some kind of spiritual Osmosis with the help of his speaking through each of us when we mingle our human spirits together while sharing our experience, strength and hope with each other.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it. <3 at least for the moment. B0)
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Re: Beliefs

Postby Randall » Mon Mar 01, 2010 2:07 pm

I only stand to lose through speaking out against all forms of discrimination... or whose acceptance do I stand to gain in your opinion?


only your own Ryan... you wouldn't have it otherwise.
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Re: Beliefs

Postby Randall » Mon Mar 01, 2010 2:14 pm

=0) I like your story George
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Re: Beliefs

Postby GenerousGeorge » Mon Mar 01, 2010 3:18 pm

So Randall.....is it wanting to be accepted or genetic or free from discomfort or pain or "god"...what's your vote? =0/
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Re: Beliefs

Postby Randall » Mon Mar 01, 2010 3:42 pm

the truth serum to your question is simple... would you hold a belief regardless of where it came from if it didn't support you in some way?

let's take Ryan's example... it just seems "right" .... the notion of right automatically has in its definition something that supports him... because its "right"
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