Beliefs and Acceptance

Metaphysical, spiritual, philosophical or mystical topics.
The forum for talks about the intangible universe, the human mind, and the soul.

Re: Beliefs

Postby Randall » Sun Feb 28, 2010 5:02 pm

=0@
always. I respect her too much not too.
מלכות השמים היא עם ב לך
User avatar
Randall
 
Posts: 229
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2010 11:08 pm
State of Mind or Tendency: Neutral
Kudos: 17

Re: Beliefs

Postby Ryan » Sun Feb 28, 2010 5:05 pm

Ok... I'm having trouble following this line of thought...

Is it that you are saying that ( individually speaking ) we create a belief system that we think we will be accepted by all those we love/know and ourselves?

If so, then to disprove this theory all that would need to be shown is a way of going about things to which those that we love/know are opposed, correct? Or is it if I can prove that I have done something that those I love/know do not accept then I myself accept it and there again it proves your point? If so, then the only way I can disprove your theory is to behave in a way that I myself reject?

Anyway... this is the point of my confusion... can you please help me understand a little better? Not that my goal is to simply disprove your theory but that is my approach to testing the validity of a theory... because if it is a theory that leaves no other option but to be correct, it always seems just like a well worded philosophical statement and nothing more. Like the whole "everything is exactly as it has to be and could not be any different" approach as to explain why things are the way they are. To me such statements are like saying "a circle is infinite as it has no beginning and no end" and then drawing a circle on a piece of paper and saying "look I am holding infinity in my hand". I believe we have choices and our choices dictate how things will turn out and if a theory leaves no room for "choice" then it is not valid.
[R] If you don't understand something I said or why I said it... ask me.
If you don't want to understand something I said or why I said it... tell me.
User avatar
Ryan
 
Posts: 709
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2009 7:54 pm
Location: Vienna, Austria
Personality: Ambivert
Favorite book: no favorite book but favorite stories
Favorite movie: the Star Wars saga
Things I like: My family, nature, movies, games, music... more later
State of Mind or Tendency: Inspired
Kudos: 50

Re: Beliefs

Postby Sabina » Sun Feb 28, 2010 5:17 pm

Randall wrote::) If you can show me how that's possible I'm willing to listen

I am willing to try... the thing is, I thought I already showed it, or at least explained it. So how can I show you, or more precisely, what exactly is not clear and needs to be clarified?

Sabina
"Whether You believe you can, or you can't, you are right."
User avatar
Sabina
 
Posts: 1752
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2009 7:11 am
Location: Vienna, Austria
Personality: Ambivert
Favorite book: Confession by Tolstoy + Chess novel by Zweig
Favorite movie: Matrix + Baraka
Things I like: the arts, free thinkers, creativity, passion, intelligence, honesty
State of Mind or Tendency: Artistic
Kudos: 61

Re: Beliefs

Postby Randall » Sun Feb 28, 2010 5:20 pm

Is it that you are saying that ( individually speaking ) we create a belief system that we think we will be accepted by all those we love/know and ourselves?
Its a bit more complex than that statement. I have yet to find any belief that isn't anchored in there some where. I've stayed away from talking about this in terms of energy because it then starts to lose some of its believability with different people. However, its the simplest way for me to observe it with in myself and others. Our beliefs empower us with energy. Sometimes you really have to go through the maze in order to find out why or how... but its always there. At the core of it, its always based with in an idea surrounding being accepted. Even the idea of being unacceptable lol

If your asking me to prove my belief, I think I can with your help. I believe I can show you how any of your beliefs come from a need to be accepted.

Share with me a belief of yours and lets unravel it and see where it comes from.
מלכות השמים היא עם ב לך
User avatar
Randall
 
Posts: 229
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2010 11:08 pm
State of Mind or Tendency: Neutral
Kudos: 17

Re: Beliefs

Postby Deep Spirits » Sun Feb 28, 2010 5:31 pm

The following is the conversation between Ryan and Randall, as well as GenerousGeorge, all together in one post rather than stretching across many pages. The conversation continues after the Intermezzo.
__14__


Ryan:
Ok... I believe that society is messed up, seriously flawed, and the root of all that is wrong in the world today.



Randall:
:) ok.... why?



Ryan:
Because as I look at the masses in society I find they are hypocritical with their words in comparison to their actions. They are greedy and petty and do not concern themselves with how they affect their surroundings. They concern themselves with the almighty dollar and those that will/do help them reach their goals. As long as you do not interfere with their plans you are "Ok". My realization of those things has contributed to my rejection of society and will to not be a part of it.



Randall:
So, society does not support you? Only itself?



Ryan:
No, society supported me... I chose not to be supported by society as I do not like who they are and do not wish to be accepted by society because of what it means for me.



Randall:
ok... missing something here...
Because as I look at the masses in society I find they are hypocritical with their words in comparison to their actions. They are greedy and petty and do not concern themselves with how they affect their surroundings. They concern themselves with the almighty dollar and those that will/do help them reach their goals. As long as you do not interfere with their plans you are "Ok". My realization of those things has contributed to my rejection of society and will to not be a part of it.

This supports you?



Ryan:
No... it doesn't support me... it supports others other than me... but what I am trying to point out is that I have chosen to not be supported because of what it means to me to be supported. I was supported and chose a path that is not supported.

Like George, for example... regardless that his surroundings, including his immediate family, are Christians he chose a path that is not supported because of what it means to him to have their support... it is not acceptable.



Randall:
Ok so if it supported your beliefs you would be ok with society. Because it doesnt support your beliefs you dont agree with it and choose not to support it. Is that accurate?



Ryan:
I do not understand... "if it supported your beliefs you would be ok with society"...

You mean, if frogs had wings they wouldn't bump their butts on the ground when they jump?

I do not know what would happen if society supported my beliefs... I would like to find out though...



Randall:
hypothetically... if society supported your beliefs you would be ok with it?



Ryan:
Hypothetically I would have to know what all will change in order for them to adopt my belief system... I am sorry... I am limited in that sense. I could assume that I would choose a different path and still reject society because I believe the road less traveled is the right path and because the masses all believe that what I believe now it must be flawed, and I would possibly develop reasons as to how it is flawed so I can once again support my need to be an outcast and a unique individual with a unique approach to life.

The point is, bringing up something that does not play a part in the development of my personal belief system is not a means to prove your point. I do not consider the "What if's" because they simply aren't. I take into consideration the "now" and my belief system is developed on the base as to how I can affect change in that which I find needs improvement. As to what will happen when all my beliefs are met... we shall see... but in all honesty I cannot answer your question as to what will happen with my beliefs if they were the standard. If, like a lawyer, you insist on my answering the question regardless of the facts... I will say "yes, I would be ok with it"... but from that point on and cannot follow the reasoning because to me the explanation from that point on does not adhere to logics.



Randall:
Relax Ryan... I am simply trying to unwravel your belief to see what is at the core of it.

I'm not a lawyer either :)

You really didnt expect me to answer your question about the frogs did you? And I'm trying to answer your other questions through this excercise.

You keep trying to dodge the question .... but why? I feel a deep anger and resentment with in this. Am I wrong?

Love you buddy..
I would possibly develop reasons as to how it is flawed so I can once again support my need to be an outcast and a unique individual with a unique approach to life

What is this need from?



Randall:
We can stop anytime you say if it get difficult or painful.



Ryan:
Yes, you are wrong, there is no problem. I am not angry nor resentful. And, no I did not expect you to answer the question about the frogs... it was only an illustration to show that it really doesn't matter, things aren't that way... a frog doesn't have wings.

I am not dodging the question, I am trying to explain there are not hidden depths.. you are at the core. I have wrestled with these things for over 25 years... I am well aware of their depths and I am trying to explain that even if you try and wrap an apple in an orange peel it doesn't change it into an onion and give it layers.

The fact is, my beliefs (in this case) have nothing to do with me and being accepted but rather the simple improvement of life for all whether I am here to benefit from it or not... but trying to force it into a state in which it isn't is plain and simply... unimaginable and therefore cannot play a part in its development. I have no way of imagining how I would be if society were to adopt my belief system. It definitely wouldn't happen over night as you are presenting it (just suddenly) it would take time and develop... along with these developments I am 100% certain I would change as well... it is simple logics.

As to the text you quoted about my "need"... I didn't say it was an actual need... I said "I could assume" it... In other words, if we are going to now assume something that is not applicable in the development of my beliefs, then I can assume a million other explanations as to how I, or my beliefs, would be affected by this change. And in which case it neither brings us closer to an actual explanation nor brings this discussion to a closed ending.

Randall, I have lost the will and need to please anybody and/or to be accepted. I don't really care... the closest I get to actually caring about any of those things is where my wife (and kids) is concerned and even then I have to be shown beyond a doubt that my way (beliefs) is in need of improvement... Most of the time, if someone has a problem with how I am as a result of my beliefs... that is their problem. I am open to listen to reason but I am not going to change so that they accept me (because they aren't going to be my friend any more)... I would rather be alone than to conform to someone else's beliefs, and I am not in search of people conforming to mine... I am just simply not concerned. I am aware that the only things I can certainly change are those within myself... I can affect change in my surroundings by how I am... and that is it... to concern myself further is pointless and brings nothing...

I love you too!
<3


Randall:
((((((Ryan)))))) I believe it goes alot deeper

I'll lay off if you want though.

I ask my self "why" and keep taking it back to the core of it. I explore my emotions surrounding them and continue until I understand why I have the emotions surrounding it. We've only just begun this here.

This is simply a journey of self exploration. No judgement about what is found there, just understanding of self.

LOL and this isnt a contest either.

I'm not debating your beliefs.... just looking for their core.

why did you choose your path?

why do you believe these things?

You keep asking qestions till there aren't any more to ask.



Ryan:
Randall, I would be happy to walk you through my thoughts and beliefs to the core I have no emotions towards them and I do not mind your or anyone else's judgment (be it or not).

As for your questions:
Randall wrote:why did you choose your path?

Which path would that be?

Randall wrote:why do you believe these things?

Which things are you particularly interested in... I have maybe thousands of beliefs...

Randall wrote:You keep asking qestions till there aren't any more to ask.

I understand the process... have been doing it for years. I have no problem doing it here and now... I have explained as to why your question regarding "if" society were to adopt my belief system and yet you still believe it goes deeper... not me... I would be happy to entertain the idea that it does... but I do not find anymore questions...

It is like asking me about what I have planned when I lose the use of my legs... why? Why should I even think about it? Is it a possibility... sure... should I now consume my existence with answering every single possible outcome of every possible variance of my beliefs? That is a waste of my time and being... I prefer to live more in the now...

Please, understand and believe me completely! I have no feelings, emotions, or personal attachment to this subject in anyway. Please feel at ease when discussing this with me... you can not hurt me and I do enjoy seeing where this may lead.


Randall:
Thank you Ryan, your openness is rare.


ok lets take it back a few steps..

No... it doesn't support me... it supports others other than me... but what I am trying to point out is that I have chosen to not be supported because of what it means to me to be supported. I was supported and chose a path that is not supported.

why?

what does it mean to you to be supported?



Ryan:
Well... the original statement was in your question to me:

Randall wrote:
Ryan wrote:Because as I look at the masses in society I find they are hypocritical with their words in comparison to their actions. They are greedy and petty and do not concern themselves with how they affect their surroundings. They concern themselves with the almighty dollar and those that will/do help them reach their goals. As long as you do not interfere with their plans you are "Ok". My realization of those things has contributed to my rejection of society and will to not be a part of it.

So, society does not support you? Only itself?

...and I took it that you were asking if my beliefs were rejected by society and therefore I was rejected as well.

I would answer "Why?" but I do not understand... Why does society not support me in my belief that it is the cause of everything wrong in the world today? Or... what?



GenerousGeorge:
Oh Chrikey......I'm missing all the fun......let's see....how can I prove you both wrong and impress you with my keen insight to the most difficult questions. 80S Will there be a prize? B0)

I hear what you both are saying. Okat, one at a time.....Let's see.......The "American Guy" seems to be an idealist. He says......"Because as I look at the masses in society I find they are hypocritical with their words in comparison to their actions. They are greedy and petty and do not concern themselves with how they affect their surroundings. They concern themselves with the almighty dollar and those that will/do help them reach their goals. As long as you do not interfere with their plans you are "Ok". My realization of those things has contributed to my rejection of society and will to not be a part of it."

My younger brother is a little bit of an intellectual and although a kind and loving person is often baffled by the "common folks" and what makes them tick. Quite some time ago we were having lunch at the family "Greek Resteraunt" at the corner by the "Falls" in Lowell Mass. My grandfather and then my fathers 2 younger brothers ran it for 2 generations. It was kind of the "Cheers" of Lowell. They sponsered the baseball and bowling teams etc, and it was the place for the "good ol boys to hang" after the games.

Anyway we are sitting there observing a dozen guys having light hearted banter, making fun of each other and the ones that were a little "over served" might even have been acting kind of stupid. 80S My brother said....."How can they sit their for hours and talk about meaningless trivia? I could never do that, it seems soooo useless and purposeless. (some thing like that....it was 20 or 30 years ago.) =0o

I replied......I'm baffled that you don't get it........I was having a good ol time, joining in, laughing and generally acting stupid. I especially liked it when they started the "George's Spa, Barroom Olympics" with events like who could throw the top of the barstools the farthest or when they all decided they were pilots and were going to fly their barstools up the Merrimac river. I can hear them now......"flight leader 107 this 104 .....going down to strafe the enemy intelligence center" (I.E. the girls dressing room at the swim area) My brother just didn't get it though. 80|

He didn't understand how they could waste their time and think they were having fun. I couldn't explain it to him then, but in retrospect, I believe God hisself, was in George's Spa on those occasions and had a good ol time himself. After all the mystery and high faluting philosophy, there is a basic communication by "God", "The Force', The Spirit" whatever that is generated between people when one or more are gathered. There is a synergy (sometimes good, sometimes not so good)that results from us being human and fallible, while at the same time "daring greatly" the challenges and perils of the journey on this earthly plane.

The long and short of it is, God is in or channels through people and unless you can share your humanity with others, even in "Georges Spa" with a couple beers in you, it is very difficult to find him. Although a hermit or a Monk might find something alone in a cave, I don 't think it brings him closer to God.

From my 1,000's of AA meetings, hearing troubled people honestly trying to share their experience strength and hope, (You would not believe some of the stories.)it is now difficult me to look at anyone and think....... "Just look at them.... the masses of society are hypocritical with their words in comparison to their actions. They are greedy and petty and do not concern themselves with how they affect their surroundings. They concern themselves with the almighty dollar and those that will/do help them reach their goals." etc. etc.

I know, for sure that when the majority of people with some of the worst character defects of the human race get together in the AA rooms "God" is there and his spirit (which is our spirit) fills those who are willing with the "good beliefs" ,if you will, that we all aspire to. They come to believe things completely the opposite of the mistaken earthly path they have taken. And...... when you see people change like that, you know (at least I do) what real miracles are.

I don't know how to get the world to understand that, but luckily that is not my job. Leading by example, as Ryan says is what we can do. However it is hard to lead by example from inside the cave. BWAHAHAHAHAHA! WHOOPS 80S

Well....that's my story and I'm sticking to it! <3



Sabina:
=0@
George...
Why exactly do you keep bringing up the cave when you are talking to or about Ryan?? :)

Sabina



Ryan:
Hello George... nice of you to join us and it is never too late to join in on the fun!

However... I am not sure I followed your story very well... You took my condemnation of society and compared it to your brother's inability to see the fun in a group of guys getting together to just horse around and have fun.

You think my assessment of society's deeds are misled and that I speak from a point of where I have no experience?



GenerousGeorge:
I guess it was you that mentioned going into a cave and being a Hermit for awhile. Maybe I think Ryan is in there looking for you. =0/

Seriously though, caves seem symbolic of isolation and Ryan seeems to be looking for that in some ways. When Ryan talks about his opinion of the pretty much useless "masses" of humanity, it is an indication that he has pulled that "cave" around himself to shield him from their influence.

It is my experience that God speaks through them as much if not more than anyone. Wherever 2 or more are gathered in spirit, he will be there. In my 1,000's of AA meetings I have observed God speaking through these people and as a result their beliefs change in a way that requires thE ASSISTANCE of a higher power/force/spirit. And.......I learn things that would never had been possible if I denied that communication because it was uncomfortable or even painful.

I speculate sometimes that we are here on this plane to learn how to deal and communicate with emotions. Maybe heaven is direct communication through emotions and if we do not learn to deal with it here, Heaven for us would actually be hell from the powerful, raw force of direct emotional communication.

On the other hand, maybe we die and the worms eat us! 80S BWAHAHAHAHAHA!

Perhaps Monks can get closer to God in caves, but for me it takes braving the discomfort of all kinds of people to really learn what God is saying and his will for me. (If there is such a thing =0o )



GenerousGeorge:
Ryan wrote:You think my assessment of society's deeds are misled and that I speak from a point of where I have no experience?

I think society is a mess! Also, I am sure you have experience with groups of guys horsing around....like football players for example, I don't disagree. What I think we might differ on is how we react to that and the best way to be part of the remedy for all that. If thats what we want, of course.



Ryan:
Ok... and what is my way of remedying that? And what is your way?



GenerousGeorge:
Hmmmm now where did I put that Crystal Ball....oh yeah it's in the shop......I'll have to guess.

I don't have any idea what your remedy for the problem of society as a whole is.....pretty big problem for a fella to tackle. =0o

I surmised from you posting that your personal answer was to withdraw from and ignore the majority of the hypocritical, dunderheads that make the society so screwed up. I did not think you were trying to remedy it and I am not criticizing you for that.

As far as a remedy go, we can only hope God has a plan for that. I certainly don't see it as my job or even the personal job of anyone. Your staement of leading by example is what I try to do. I cannot give anyone willingness to change or even work on their own character defects. I can be available though for those who ask my advice. (You know what free advice is worth? 80S )

That is why I continue to go to AA meetings and listen to people who have made a decision to be a part of the solution, at least for them personally. We say it is "a program of attraction, not promotion" and I think that is more possible if I make myself available to whomever has decided they want to change.

Basically I think I probably am a lot like you in just trying to work on myself.



Randall:
lol....
Ryan wrote:
Because as I look at the masses in society I find they are hypocritical with their words in comparison to their actions. They are greedy and petty and do not concern themselves with how they affect their surroundings. They concern themselves with the almighty dollar and those that will/do help them reach their goals. As long as you do not interfere with their plans you are "Ok". My realization of those things has contributed to my rejection of society and will to not be a part of it.


...and I took it that you were asking if my beliefs were rejected by society and therefore I was rejected as well.


yes... that is what I was asking. my thought is that if society supported your beliefs it would mean that society mirrored your beliefs.
Since society doesnt mirror your beliefs then it does not support them.
I would answer "Why?" but I do not understand... Why does society not support me in my belief that it is the cause of everything wrong in the world today? Or... what?

No... it doesn't support me... it supports others other than me... but what I am trying to point out is that I have chosen to not be supported because of what it means to me to be supported.


I'm asking why to this statement:
I have chosen to not be supported because of what it means to me to be supported."


I'm sorry that wasnt clear. I hope this is clearer.



Ryan (in response to GenerousGeorge):
Ok... I am a little confused but all is becoming much clearer. So, you see it as we have a similar approach in the we both are mainly working on ourselves in order to make a change... except in my case you are guessing that I am withdrawing from the "useless" masses (your words, not mine) as opposed to you putting yourself out there. Yes? If so, why do you think I am withdrawing?



Ryan (in response to Randall):
Randall wrote:I'm asking why to this statement:

I have chosen to not be supported because of what it means to me to be supported.


I'm sorry that wasnt clear. I hope this is clearer.

Yes, thank you...

Because I don't see the point in supporting something I believe to be wrong.



Randall:
Does its wrongness anger you?



Ryan:
Some of it, certainly.



Randall:
Why?



Ryan:
It depends on which "wrongness" we are talking about... but... I'll pick one...

Discrimination/Racism/Prejudice
Because we are all human and there isn't a need for such separations between us. These things are responsible for all kinds of atrocities towards people and no matter how many historical lessons we have been taught as to how wrong this approach is, society fails to grasp it and instead finds ways to support their current prejudice... whatever it might be.



Randall:
Where does the anger come from? Is it because you feel threatened? or?



Ryan:
I fall into one of the least discriminated groups of people on the entire planet of Earth... I am a married white male with kids... you just can't buy a better meal ticket than that... I do not feel threatened at all. It angers me... as I have explained... it is wrong. It has been proven again and again throughout the world's history that it is unjust and leads to no good... regardless of the proof as to how wrong it is, it continues.



Randall:
How then does your anger serve you?



Ryan:
It doesn't... it is just a reaction.

I hit my thumb with a hammer and I cry... how does it serve me? It doesn't... it is just a reaction.



Randall:
So, you dont get angry when you hit your thumb with a hammer for any reason? Not because it hurts? not because you were stupid enough to do it in the first place? not because of the inconvenience of it? its just a reaction?



Ryan:
No, I don't get angry at all... for any reason...
Why would I get angry because it hurts? I hit my thumb with a hammer and I was under the impression that it might feel good?
I don't think I am stupid for hitting my thumb... anyone who does any amount of hammering will eventually hit their thumb.
It is an accident... it happens.



Randall:
ok, so why do you keep it if it doesnt serve any purpose?



Ryan:
Keep it?
You think I am always angry?
No... I am not... only in the moment when I witness it.



Randall:
ok, so then what is anger to you, personally?

Also, can you explain this for me...

No, I don't get angry at all... for any reason...


and then this

Here's my deal... My main two shared emotions are happiness and anger... so much falls under both of these... for me. All, what I would refer to as negative emotions, are outwardly visible to others as anger. Somebody keys my car... I'm sad but you will see anger, Someone I care about flippantly let's me know they don't care for my opinion... I'm hurt but you will see anger, my kid runs out into the street and almost gets hit by a car... I'm scared to death but you will see anger. Maybe this has to do with me as a kid... I didn't weigh over 100 pounds (45 Kilos) until I was 13-14 years old... my best defense was CRAZY RAGE! A year later I weighed over 155 lbs (70 Kilos) and was around 6 foot (182 cm) tall. Crazy rage went along way then... it was easy and it did the job. Was it good... no... it was destructive and it was a means to control by intimidation. Was I creative... you betcha!! I could belt out a stanza of some hard core metal to fit any situation.


They seem to contradict each other



Ryan:
You are asking my personal definition of anger as a noun?

Being that I am a believer in adhering to definitions in order to not complicate language my definition would be:
Merriam-Webster wrote:Main Entry: 2anger
Function: noun

1 : a strong feeling of displeasure and usually of antagonism


As for my alleged contradiction:

(Randall) - You wrote:So, you dont get angry when you hit your thumb with a hammer for any reason?


As a Response I wrote:No, I don't get angry at all... for any reason...


It is not a contradiction... it is a response to a specific question...



Randall:
How then does your anger serve you?

It doesn't... it is just a reaction.

I hit my thumb with a hammer and I cry... how does it serve me? It doesn't... it is just a reaction.

With in the context of the conversation it does seem like a contradiction.

Ok, so lets see if I am on the right track, anger serves no purpose, its just a reaction. Is that right?



Ryan:
You are mixing things...

I didn't ever say anything about getting angry for hitting my thumb with the hammer... to the contrary I said I didn't get angry for hitting my thumb with the hammer at all... for any reason.

I only said I cry as a reaction... there is no emotion implied, just pain. You can assume I am crying as a result of an emotion... but I did not say it.

I said, my reaction to prejudice is anger and my reaction to hitting my thumb with a hammer is to cry as an example of a reaction that does not serve me...

Still I see no contradiction...



Randall:
again to clarify this..

How then does your anger serve you?

and you then said
It doesn't... it is just a reaction.

then

Ok, so lets see if I am on the right track, anger serves no purpose, its just a reaction. Is that right?



Ryan:
I never said anger, in general, is just a reaction and serves no purpose.
No, that is not right.



Randall:
Ok... how does anger serve you?



Ryan:
When?



Randall:
in general



Ryan:
I do not understand...

It doesn't serve me in general...

It serves me in some cases in different ways and does not serve me at all in others. That is why I asked when.



Randall:
Can you give me examples of both? and how it serves you in certain circumstances?

and why it doesnt serve you in others?



Ryan:
Ok, someone is trying to take advantage of me by threatening me with a law suit unless I pay them for supposed damages to their car. Me getting angry and yelling at them while turning red in the face and moving towards them quickly serves me in the sense that they will be intimidated and if not drop the whole thing, they will at least shut up and get out of my face with their threats.

It doesn't serve me when I am working on a program and each time I run it, the program does not function properly and with each revision and test that it continues to not function I get angrier and angrier. It does not serve me because my anger, and its escalation, causes me to become less and less reasonable and does not help me solve the problem and possibly only make more mistakes.



Randall:
would you like to continue this tomorrow? <3

or do you want to continue?



Randall:
when did you become aware that anger could serve you?



Ryan:
I have been told that the first time I took a swing at my sister for pestering me was at the age of 1 year old.



Randall:
do you feel your anger was some thing you learned to exhibit? or something you were born with?



Ryan:
I believe everyone is born with the ability/capacity to be angry and display anger... I don't see myself as any different.



Randall:
did you learn anything about anger from your parents or siblings?



Ryan:
No, not that I am aware of.



Randall:
Did you ever experience their anger directed at you?



Ryan:
Seriously?
Yes, of course, who hasn't?



Randall:
:) I'm learning to to assume anything here lol

How did their anger make you feel?
User avatar
Deep Spirits
Site Admin
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2009 7:24 pm
Location: Deep Spirits
Personality: Ambivert
State of Mind or Tendency: Neutral
Kudos: 1

Intermezzo

Postby Sabina » Mon Mar 01, 2010 3:24 am

Here is some background music for you two (and whoever else is reading this conversation):
;0)

I recommend opening the link in a new tab or window as to play it as background music while reading.

Info: In music, an intermezzo, in the most general sense, is a composition which fits between other musical or dramatic entities.
"Whether You believe you can, or you can't, you are right."
User avatar
Sabina
 
Posts: 1752
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2009 7:11 am
Location: Vienna, Austria
Personality: Ambivert
Favorite book: Confession by Tolstoy + Chess novel by Zweig
Favorite movie: Matrix + Baraka
Things I like: the arts, free thinkers, creativity, passion, intelligence, honesty
State of Mind or Tendency: Artistic
Kudos: 61

Re: Beliefs

Postby GenerousGeorge » Mon Mar 01, 2010 3:25 am

Ryan sid....".......in my case you are guessing that I am withdrawing from the "useless" masses (your words, not mine) as opposed to you putting yourself out there. Yes? If so, why do you think I am withdrawing?"

Guessing???? Scmessing!!!!! It does not take a Harvard Scholar to "guess" you are withdrawing. =0o You said...... "Because as I look at the masses in society I find they are hypocritical with their words in comparison to their actions. They are greedy and petty and do not concern themselves with how they affect their surroundings. They concern themselves with the almighty dollar and those that will/do help them reach their goals. As long as you do not interfere with their plans you are "Ok". My realization of those things has contributed to my rejection of society and will to not be a part of it."

and...... "No, society supported me... I chose not to be supported by society as I do not like who they are and do not wish to be accepted by society because of what it means for me."

Am I missing some hidden intent here? 80S


Then there is the......"...........as opposed to you (GEORGE) putting yourself out there. Yes? If so, why do you think I am withdrawing?"


In different post you used this example....

"Like George, for example... regardless that his surroundings, including his immediate family, are Christians he chose a path that is not supported because of what it means to him to have their support... it is not acceptable."

My reply to that is that I cannot afford to live in an "Ivory Tower" when it comes to my family...... I have to compromise........ that does not mean I am not faithful to my beliefs or true to myself. There are a lot of raised eyebrows and "coughs", when the Pastor tell everyone to stand and out of 1,000 + people I'm the only one left sitting.

Sometimes some sympathetic helpful "fellow worshiper" will comment.....you got a bad back or legs or something. I reply, no, I feel fine, I just don't want to stand up. You would think I had farted in church or sumpin!

They really don't understand me......what they really don't get is they know I am a good and kind person, always with a smile on my face and ready to lend a hand to help someone. They cannot figure out why I can have good moral values with out JEEEEESUS!

The braver ones, including the Pastor who I have lunch with on occasion try to have me read books by C. S. Lewis and other apologists, I read them and respond to the points in the book that they have referred me to. In our discussions they really don't have any good answers for the common sense and straight forward answers I give to their questions about me and God and the Debil!! It usually ends with them saying they will pray for me and that some things require faith and should not be analyzed with "mans reason"

In the end, one of the biggest problems with our society is the lack of real communication between people. I'm sure I haven't converted any Christians to Agnosticism, but I bet I keep some of them up at night thinking about my answers.

Soooo, I do my part by being there with my fmily and setting an example of what I think is right.

I regard many of the people at the church as my friends and vice versa.......they just don't know what to make of me, but it's a start at communicating.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it. <3
User avatar
GenerousGeorge
 
Posts: 327
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 5:11 am
Location: Houston Texas
Personality: Extrovert
State of Mind or Tendency: Optimistic
Kudos: 19

Re: Beliefs

Postby Randall » Mon Mar 01, 2010 3:26 am

smiling... ty Sabina <3
מלכות השמים היא עם ב לך
User avatar
Randall
 
Posts: 229
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2010 11:08 pm
State of Mind or Tendency: Neutral
Kudos: 17

Re: Beliefs

Postby Randall » Mon Mar 01, 2010 3:28 am

hahahaha oh sabina.... I'm laughing my butt off now... not that I had much to lose hahahahaha
מלכות השמים היא עם ב לך
User avatar
Randall
 
Posts: 229
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2010 11:08 pm
State of Mind or Tendency: Neutral
Kudos: 17

Re: Beliefs

Postby Sabina » Mon Mar 01, 2010 3:35 am

=0@ ;0)
Yes.. reading the conversation I actually remembered this piece of music that I haven't heard in years, but now I could clearly hear it in my mind.
I'm glad you got a kick out of it. :))
"Whether You believe you can, or you can't, you are right."
User avatar
Sabina
 
Posts: 1752
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2009 7:11 am
Location: Vienna, Austria
Personality: Ambivert
Favorite book: Confession by Tolstoy + Chess novel by Zweig
Favorite movie: Matrix + Baraka
Things I like: the arts, free thinkers, creativity, passion, intelligence, honesty
State of Mind or Tendency: Artistic
Kudos: 61

PreviousNext

Return to Spirited Debate

Who is online

Registered users: No registered users

cron
StumbleUpon Digg Delicious Reddit Yahoo Google Live Facebook Twitter MySpace