2 Nice Optical Illusions

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2 Nice Optical Illusions

Postby Sabina » Wed Jan 06, 2010 3:25 am

Both images are static, not animated, and nice examples of how our eyes can be tricked.

optical-illusion-rotsnake.gif
optical-illusion-rotsnake.gif (120.25 KiB) Viewed 3582 times


optical-illusion-anomalous.gif
optical-illusion-anomalous.gif (79.18 KiB) Viewed 3582 times
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Re: 2 Nice Optical Illusions

Postby mirjana » Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:59 am

That is the good one. Movies are made of how our eyes can be tricked. I have always been wondering how sure can we at all be when stating something as being "seen".
This put into the connection with perspective(which is the angle of the observation), then adding many other subjective limitations that depend on the subject or the observed situation, triggers the question: how objective can we be in any particular situation?

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Re: 2 Nice Optical Illusions

Postby Pat » Fri Jan 08, 2010 1:20 am

mirjana wrote:That is the good one. Movies are made of how our eyes can be tricked. I have always been wondering how sure can we at all be when stating something as being "seen".
This put into the connection with perspective(which is the angle of the observation), then adding many other subjective limitations that depend on the subject or the observed situation, triggers the question: how objective can we be in any particular situation?

Mirjana


I was thinking the same thing ...How can we know if our perception has anything to do with the reality of the situation. Perhaps someone else has a better view. And how do we know? I could take this thought a lot further... into what is right or wrong... good or bad is it not just a perception? I guess that is my question.
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Re: 2 Nice Optical Illusions

Postby Sabina » Fri Jan 08, 2010 1:29 am

Yes... that was also the reason I originally posted it here, but (!) don't underestimate the fact that with optical illusions the eyes of all of us are tricked in the same way.
We are tricked on a collective level!

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Re: 2 Nice Optical Illusions

Postby Ryan » Fri Jan 08, 2010 9:33 am

Sabina wrote:We are tricked on a collective level!


The reason why we are "tricked" is also known.

However, the whole right and wrong / good and bad thing is a whole other story...
You have things that are black and white, and you have the greys/grays...
    2+2=4 - Black and White
    Your aunt runs over your bicycle accidentally - Grey/Gray
    You feed someone that is starving - Black and White
    Only 3 people of six are saved from the avalanche - Grey/Gray
However, I don't think it is responsible to apply the grey/gray theory to every instance...we exist in a universe of positive, negative, and neutral and everyone of them have a purpose. To insist that everything is grey/gray is just as inaccurate as to insist that everything is either black, or white...It is simply an extreme in another direction.

Right & Wrong:
You can argue that there is no wrong in that everything needs to happen a certain way in order to learn and grow and therefore the action that resulted in a negative result was needed for those involved to learn a certain lesson and grow from it and therefore it was right. However, regardless of that philosophical approach the fact that the actual result was not the one that was desired also shows that the choice that lead to the result was the wrong one to achieve the desired out come.

Good & Bad:
As for good and bad... I think everyone agrees that "to every action there is an equal and opposite reaction" or more to the point... with everything that happens there are both positives, negatives, and neutral consequences. When we are trying to make a decision as to "what we should do" we are trying to consider all the possible consequences of doing it a certain way to measure things, for ourselves by our own standards, as to which approach is going to yield the more positive consequences (again, in our own opinions) in contrast to the negative. So, having the approach that nothing is either good or bad can fit... but again it is not entirely accurate, because every person judging the situation by their own standards will make up their own minds as to whether it was good, bad, or didn't really matter to them. Which I agree is not any grand realization of anything, however... if you could possibly measure the influence and those judgments for every person a particular action has or will touch then you would have your decisive judgment. If you simply look at it as everyone involved in an event is essentially the jury. The event is judged by those that matter and their judgment, as a whole, state whether the action was positive, negative, or neutral. Regardless, to say that nothing is either good or bad is inaccurate, to say we have no way of knowing if something is good or bad is accurate.

So, in order to give a definite answer to whether or not something is right or wrong or good or bad, opposed to just a personal opinion, someone would have to have faith in certain things. Which would bring me to my opinion about faith.
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Re: 2 Nice Optical Illusions

Postby mirjana » Fri Jan 08, 2010 10:43 am

Ryan wrote:However, I don't think it is responsible to apply the grey/gray theory to every instance...we exist in a universe of positive, negative, and neutral and everyone of them have a purpose. To insist that everything is grey/gray is just as inaccurate as to insist that everything is either black, or white...It is simply an extreme in another direction.


How I see it, it is not insisting that everything is grey.Insisting on perspective does not mean insisting on grey. It is putting in question the certainty of how something is seen, either be it black, white or grey. Because if, like you said, we were jury, it could be possible to prove that black is white, white is black and grey can be once this or another time that. That was the question, how to be sure that what we think or have the faith is really that. Just remember 12 Angry Men.It seemed so clear that black was black, but it turned to be white. Without that one man it could have stayed black for all the times.

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Re: 2 Nice Optical Illusions

Postby Ryan » Fri Jan 08, 2010 11:22 am

I am not sure what you are talking about...I said that to one something maybe white, another it be black, and yet another grey... which would be speaking from the personal perspective...

And yes, 12 angry men deals with a certain incident as to whether or not the boy was guilty of committing a crime... and hence 2+2=4...there is a certain answer for that...I did not deny such instances.

However, if you would like to now discuss 12 angry men on a larger scale... then was the murder good or bad? This is the point I was making... there is no way of knowing if this murder was a good thing or bad. You can follow it... how the boy's life was affected, how each member of the jury's life was affected, how they affected the people around them, etc. but eventually the exponential growth will be so large there would be no way of being able to measure exactly how this has effected the future and whether or not it was a good thing or bad.

What I was attempting to say was that by saying there isn't anything that is really good or bad/wrong or right is inaccurate, what would be more accurate is to say we have no way of knowing whether it was actually good or bad/ wrong or right...
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Re: 2 Nice Optical Illusions

Postby Sabina » Fri Jan 08, 2010 12:30 pm

Ryan wrote:Right & Wrong:
... However, regardless of that philosophical approach the fact that the actual result was not the one that was desired also shows that the choice that lead to the result was the wrong one to achieve the desired out come.

I don't think it necessarily shows that, because the outcome does not solely depend on our choices. There are accidents in life, there are influences of other people and their choices, and many more things, that affect the outcome of an action and situation.

In a way we are just tapping in the blind, hoping for the best. This hoping for the best some call "faith" as well. Actually, hope and faith are rather connected, but I will share my comments on faith in the Faith topic rather than here.

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